7 Things Yo’ Momma Never Told You About Church History

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In this talk Perry Marshall selects 7 huge “anchor points” – 7 monumental ideas and events that changed civilization. You’ll see with new clarity how the world has been transformed in a positive way:

1. What ancient people really believed about the earth, science and technology (this one’s a big surprise – it’s NOT what you’ve been told!)

2. Robust evidence that the gospels – Matthew, Mark, Luke and John – were written before 70 AD – well within the lifetimes of Jesus’ closest friends.

3. Faith and Science in 1000 BC, 1000 AD, and 2000

4. The true story behind those “extra” books the Catholics stuck in the middle of the Bible… and the Most Powerful Bible Verse they never taught you in Sunday School

5. The #1 idea in the American constitution came from the Bible. Trace the history of the world’s most dangerous idea

6. How we got the Bible we read today – a list of urban legends, and the truth of what actually happened

7. The printing press, the protestant reformation and the evolution of technology

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107 Responses to “7 Things Yo’ Momma Never Told You About Church History”

  1. Laurence Meier says:

    Dear Sirs/Ma’am
    What I would like to know is why the Charismatic extremist all
    the way through to your Orthodox churches of today insist on
    teaching that Yeshua is NOT the Messiah??

    • Tony Francis says:

      I have not heard of any Christian Charismatics who teach that Yeshua (Jesus Christ) is NOT the Messiah.
      If there are any Jewish Charismatics, they may teach that doctrine.

  2. Listening You, I would leave here only my Good Smile, for now.
    And one answer for all us: what’s the Mistery of our Soul?
    All the True Profecies are wrotten in the holy Bible, I believe it. But the world, yet, fights against Bible & Christ The Original. Why my Friends? Thanks for little coffee of my Hope:) And God bless all You:)

  3. Ops! I forget: never never never Science against Religion! They both are the MISTERY of Human Spirit. I love both. Thanks Friends:)

  4. Abdul lathef says:

    What was the Gospel of Jesus Christ ?

    Jesus Christ is that great son of man who was appointed to return the lost children of Israel to the House of the Lord. The Saviour of Israel who was born in Bethlehem twenty centuries ago lived casting out radiance upon his people. As one engaged in a battle against the institution of a decadent priesthood as well as the traditional belief systems, he had to confront much opposition. Indeed, the high priests had even decided upon the crucifixion of the great man on the cross. He had shown miracles to prove that he was sent by God Himself.

    What was this ‘Gospel’ which he had preached at the cost of sacrifices and by way of his showing miracles?

    He had spoken of the Day of Judgment. Christ was that great lover of humanity who had realized the fact that mere legislations and governments alone can never make a man good. He taught that the ultimate objective of human life was entry into Paradise and escape from Hellfire. He proclaimed the eternal life of the Kingdom of Heaven to be much higher than the transitory goods and comforts of this life. He had enlightened the people on this matter with the aid of some of the most beautiful and lofty examples that could be conceived. “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” (Mathew 6:19-21)

    Christ who strictly taught that it is better to cut off here, and now, the parts of the body that are the cause of sin than to subject one’s whole body to the fire of Hell, essentially teaches that it is better to save oneself from Hell in the hereafter even if it were to entail the loss of one’s own life in this world. He said : “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ Everyone will be salted with fire. “(Mark 9:43-49)

    Christ taught that to enter into Paradise and escape from Hell one would have to act righteously. In particular, he had stressed that such righteousness must not be founded on the desire for worldly recognition. Look at the advice of Jesus: “Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.” (Mathew 6:1)

    “… so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” (Mathew 6:4)

    The Messiah, who taught that even the enemy was to be loved, actually instructed the Israelites, who had lived a life in mutual animosity and conflict, in the message of love and in the way in which that message was to be the cause of moral transformation. He had advised thus, “But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” (Mathew 5:44,45)

    Christ had sought to alienate the people of Israel, who were given to conflicts and quarrels, to murders and to anger against their own brother and to abusing him, from all these misconducts by teaching that all of these were acts that could potentially lead to Hell. “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.” (Mathew 5:21,22)

    Christ strongly opposed adultery. Indeed, he taught that to even cast a glance upon a woman, with the intention of desire, was tantamount to having sinned. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Mathew 5:27,28) Here, all circumstances that may lead to adultery have come in for criticism. The fundamental reason for the decadence within the modern world wherein feminine charms have been made the objects of display is highlighted in these words of Christ made two millenniums ago.

    Christ taught the masses that they were to live in accordance with the directives issued by the Lord Creator and Sustainer. He advised his followers that they were to come closer unto Him through prayer and meditation. But he had stressed that such acts should not be undertaken as a hypocritical gesture that is to be displayed in front of the people. He said that as it is the Lord Himself, who is best aware of all secrets, who confers rewards, it is meaningless to perform deeds in order that they be seen by the people.

    However, Christ had taught that the belief in one God was the highest of all commandments. Observe the reply he had given to the question as to which commandment was the greatest of all. “‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'” (Mark 12:29,30)

    Look at the prayer which Christ taught, “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.” (Mathew 6:10-13)

    Christ had taught that all prayer must be made to the Lord God alone. While teaching the maxim, “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.” (Mathew 7:7) he had taught that the Father in Heaven would respond in even more generous terms to those who ask of Him. (Mathew 7:11). Indeed, in the most critical junctures in the life of that great lover of humanity, we have seen that he had always resorted only to the calling upon the one Creator alone. Observe, for instance, the occasion when he had called upon the one and only God to save him from the cross prepared by the wicked high priests of the land: “Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.'” (Mathew 26:39)

    But what is it that the Christians of today do? The majority of them are those who are involved in the act of be- seeching their saints and idols apart from the one God who created and sustains the entire universe. However, we do not see, even a single instance, wherein Christ ever called upon or consider a mediator, any of the other saintly personalities who preceded him. It is, therefore, not possible for any genuine follower of Christ, pledged as he is to the life in accordance with the life of Christ, to call upon any other than the one and only God.

    How deplorable is the fact that those who actually call themselves true Christians are, in fact, themselves engaged in the worship of Christ and, therefore, in the act that is contrary to his own advises! If only those who call upon and make prayer to Lord Jesus had at least listened to the advice of that great man. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Mathew 7:21) Through these words Christ had sought to strongly criticize the act of calling him ‘Lord’ and to advice the people to do the will of the Father.

    We have understood that Christ had preached the unadulterated faith in the one God. Indeed, all prophets right from Noah to John the Baptist had preached the same message of ‘Our Lord is one Lord.’ Jesus had only repeated that message. However, the church today holds as good a doctrine that was unheard of by Christ or any of his followers for that matter. That doctrine is the doctrine of Trinity.

    Even if all the books of the Bible ranging from Genesis to Revelation, which stretched through the Old and New Testaments, are sifted, cross examined and studied, nowhere will there be found even a single statement to support the idea that the God Lord comprises of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The ‘Father’ who is introduced in the Bible is actually the one and only, Merciful God who created and sustains this universe. The ‘Holy Ghost’ is but one among the creations which work in accordance with the Divine commandments. The ‘Son’ is but a great messenger who had come to guide the Israelites along the path of righteousness. These three are not the same; they are three distinct individualities.

    What, indeed, was that emotion which had then prompted the Church to accept the doctrine of Trinity which, unlike the faith in the one God taught by all messengers appointed in the world which could easily be comprehended by the mind of man, was difficult to comprehend and was never in the original teachings of the prophets themselves?

    It was four centuries after Christ that the Doctrine of Trinity was accepted as the canonical belief of the Church at the Synod of Constantinople. Up until that time the doctrine was unknown to the apostles, who were still alive, as well as to their followers. If by not accepting the doctrine of Trinity one forfeits the reward of eternal life, it will be Christ himself who will, first of all, be hurled into the fire of Hell.

    It can be seen that this belief has been borrowed from the other existing perverted beliefs of the day. Indeed, the idea of three gods as well as of their union was an idea that was in vogue even before the time of Christ. Historical excavations have now made it clear that the Babylonian civilization which existed two thousand years before Christ nurtured a belief in the oneness of the three gods Ishamther, Shin and Shamesh. The Egyption civilization which existed about the same time, too, held the belief in the oneness of the three gods Horus, Osiris and Isis. According to the Palyrian beliefs that were extant in the first century after Christ, the Universe was held in balance by the union of the persons of the Moon-god, Sun-god and the god of the heavens. The Hindu belief was that the one God, Parabrahmma, resided in the three manifestations of Bhrahmav, Shiva and Vishnu. The Buddhists, too, held a belief in the three manifestations of the Divine: Vajjupani, Manjushri and Aralokitheshwaran. The Mithraists of Persia were a people who worshipped the three gods Oramasdas, Mithran and Ahirman.

    The Emperor Constantine too was a religionist of such a perverted mentality. He was, in fact, one of the most cruel emperors the world had ever seen in that he had mercilessly butchered his own father-in-law, brother-in-law, nephew, wife and son. It is held that he had embraced Christianity in order that he be freed of the sins he had committed. Even so, Constantine, who readily and eagerly believed the Christian belief that all sins of the past would be forgiven once the baptism commenced, was himself baptised only on his deathbed. This implied that he had no opportunity, whatsoever, to sin again after his baptism. (Ref. T.W. Doane: The Bible Myths: Should we believe in Trinity ?, Watch tower Bible Society)

    It was this Emperor Constantine who had presided over the Nicene Council in the year 325 C.E. It must thus be remembered that even while he presided over the council he had undergone no baptism himself. It was this very council that laid the basis for the acceptance of the belief that ‘Christ and God are one and the same’ which ultimately led the church towards the recognition of the doctrine of trinity itself. It is, therefore, not difficult to see that it was nothing but the ploy of Constantine to consolidate his own political power through the conjoining of the religion of the worship of the sun, which was prevalent in Rome, with Christianity, which had worked behind the origin of this deviation from established norms.

    It was not just the recognition of the doctrine of Trinity, which had taken place at the council at Constantinople. It was at this council that the cross of light, the symbol of the Sun god, which resembled the cross on which Christ was crucified, was accepted as the symbol of Christianity itself. It was again at this very council that it was decided that December 25th, the birthday of the Sun god, would be celebrated as Christmas day and that Sunday, which was the holy day for the Sun god, would be observed as the day of the Sabbath. It was only through the exile and murder of the great,scholarly critics of the Nicene Council which approved the intermingling of these false and perverted ideas of other groups with the pristine teachings of Christ, the messenger of God, that the Church came to accept these grave distortions as canonical.

    We have understood that Christ had never taught the concept of Trinity. All that he did say was that it is only the One God who is to be worshipped. He had worked many a miracle But he never claimed that he had done these to prove that he was God or that he was one in a triple God-head. He had said, “I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father had taught me.” (John 8:28)

    Jesus was, indeed, a great man. A man who had endured great sacrifices for the sake of the Israelites. For that reason itself he was, doubtless, great. But the Almighty who had appointed him is much greater still. This has been stated by Christ himself: “..the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28) Here, Christ has struck at the very root of the Trinity doctrine which holds that the One God is essentially a combination of three equally powerful personalities: the father, the son and the holy ghost.

    The most important gospel of Christ was this, ” ‘Worship the Lord, your God, and serve him only.'” (Mathew 4:10) Yes. It is only, the pure and holy Creator, the Sustainer of all life, who is to be worshipped. Krishna, Christ and the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) : all were creations; never the Creator. It is the Creator who is to be worshipped. The Almighty, All-Powerful Creator alone. This is the Gospel of Christ.

    That which the Quran quotes from the words of Jesus is also the same message. “‘It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'” (Quran 3:51)

    Jesus had departed from this world conveying the news of the arrival of a great messenger from God who was to come after him. He said: “But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Pericletus will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgement….

    “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.” (John 16:7-13)

    The Pericletus prophesied by Jesus was born in Arabia. It was the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), who came confirming and attesting to the truth of the mission of Jesus, who taught the world concerning sin, truth, justice and law. Indeed, it was he who had guided the world unto all truth. The prophet Muhammad (pbuh), who had taught the etiquettes that were to be observed in all fields of life, was truly the follower of Christ as well as the last of the messengers. Islam is the religion that has been completed through him. He had exhorted the people to tread upon the path of Jesus and all the earlier prophets.

    Accept, therefore, the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), the follower of Christ, as the messenger of God. Order life in accordance with the dictates of the Quran – the Divine book revealed to the world through him. That, and that alone, is the path to eternal salvation.

    .

    • Francis Stephen says:

      A simple understanding of TRINITY. Look at the Sun.It gives light and heat. Its three in one. Father (LORD) Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit, which filled the hearts and souls and guided the apostles when Jesus ascended.
      It was already prophesised in the Old Testament of the virgin birth, death of CHRIST and second coming of Jesus.Koran accepts virgin birth and second coming of Jesus but not death. The argument was that God would not allow anyone to kill Jesus who was God’s prophet. Prophet Muhammed was poisoned and it caused his death. How did God allow this “slow killing”. God, should also by same logic saved Prophet Muhammed too if he was the last and greatest of all prophets as claimed.Why accept only half of the Old Testament on birth and second coming but not death of Jesus by crucufixion.The reason is there would be no place for Prophet Muhammed or Islam if Koran accepts it. It would end with Jesus who was indeed the greatest of all prophets and Messiah. Prophet Muhammed had a reason to deny Jesus’s death so that he could live to preach Islam otherwise he would not have any followers.Jesus and his apostles were a complete contradiction to Prophet Muhammed. Jesus preached forgiveness, love and peace by saying “if someone slapped your right cheek, offer your left” but prophet Muhammed lived by the sword and he fought wars where there was much killing. Would ever Jesus who always spoke of love,peace and forgiveness picked a successor such as Prophet Muhammed??? who preached and acted just the opposite. Jesus asked his apostles to be honest, upright, faithful and chaste with their spouses and no apostles had any polygamy inclination whatsoever. But Prophet Muhammed was a complete contradiction having not less than 12 wives, one who was only 6 years old. The prophets before Jesus may had numerous wives but Jesus came and literally put a stop to polygamy. This is the New Testament. Jesus came and showed how to lead a family life for those apostles and followers who were married.Arabic traditions and customs are mere excuses for Prophet Muhammaed to be polygamous. Jesus even went against Jewish cusoms and traditions during his lifetime had put a fullstop to this already. If Prophet Muhammed was truly the chosen prophet by Jesus surely he has to honour , abide and agree to Jesus teachngs and way of life and in fact enhancing it rather than creating new contradictions and unacceptable teachings. A religion must be universal and not confined to people,customs and traditions of a particular time, race or people. In fact all other religions or their founders believed and practised monogamy be it Hindusism, Buddhism,Sikkhism,Taoism etc and the only major religion which allows polygamy is Islam. Buddha ,who was a prince, in fact gave up his kingdom,wife and children and chose to be celibate and disowned the material world to achieve nirvana. Prophet Muhammed on the other hand just kept on adding wives.Can such a person who claims to be the last and greatest of all prophets be truly be a messenger of GOD? Can we rely on his teachings,sayings and way of life? Would you ever in the first place marry a girl who is six years old, and for that matter when you are fifty as Prophet Muhammed was? Can you then use the Koran which came from such a character as Prophet Muhammed to judge the Bible?

      • James Potter says:

        You may try to dissuade people from Abdul’s comment by attacking his prophet with you beliefs none of which I see have any reference what so ever ( he quoted stuff from religious books you have not, what proof do you have of what you say to be factually correct and not some twisted biased propaganda made to protect yourself from the chance you may be wrong? where did you get the 6 year old from? ) But the topic at hand is not who is whom but The Message of Christ you have made no attempt or at all succeeded at showing what Christ said was wrong nor that the trinity is correct I still am confused by your blather about the sun’s light and the moon and God & all please explain clearly and easily and then give proof of what you say with references to holy books written by actual priests and all. But DO You OR Do you not agree with Abdul at what he says that Christ had said. Answer that first attack his message then and only then can you move onto his sources

    • Ron Masse says:

      Abdul,

      Nice dissertation.
      The Holy Spirit Jesus spoke about came on the day of Pentecost and sparked the start of the church. Equating Mohammed with the Holy Spirit or saying he was the Holy Spirit is the closest I’ve ever seen to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to which Jesus said was the unpardonable sin.

    • Roger Sawtelle says:

      I refer you to Psalm 2:7 where the LORD God speaks to the Messiah, God’s Chosen One, Jesus the Christ: “You are My Son. Today I have begotten You.”

      • Richard Ruquist says:

        Psalm 2:8&9

        [8] Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
        and the ends of the earth your possession.
        [9] You shall break them with a rod of iron,
        and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

        Apparently the son never asked.

        For completeness here is the entire Psalm 2 from the Revised Standard Version:

        Ps.2
        [1] Why do the nations conspire,
        and the peoples plot in vain?
        [2] The kings of the earth set themselves,
        and the rulers take counsel together,
        against the LORD and his anointed, saying,
        [3] “Let us burst their bonds asunder,
        and cast their cords from us.”
        [4] He who sits in the heavens laughs;
        the LORD has them in derision.
        [5] Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
        and terrify them in his fury, saying,
        [6] “I have set my king
        on Zion, my holy hill.”
        [7] I will tell of the decree of the LORD:
        He said to me, “You are my son,
        today I have begotten you.
        [8] Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
        and the ends of the earth your possession.
        [9] You shall break them with a rod of iron,
        and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
        [10] Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
        be warned, O rulers of the earth.
        [11] Serve the LORD with fear,
        with trembling
        [12] kiss his feet,
        lest he be angry, and you perish in the way;
        for his wrath is quickly kindled.
        Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

        This sounds much more like a prophecy of what’s expected in the second coming.

      • Tony Francis says:

        Was He begotten on that day? Was He not begotten from the beginning?

    • Tony Francis says:

      Hi Abdul,
      Your letter shows that you have taken time and effort to study Jesus’ life, and admire his teachings. But as your name suggests, you were brought up in an Islamic background, and couldn’t reconcile with Christian and Islamic teachings. I thought that I should spare some time to try and explain Jesus Christ to someone sincerely interested in knowing Him.
      First, I shall try to explain why there cannot be any entity all by itself. Any organisation, or product, should have a minimum of 3 components for it to exist as a purposeful and logical entity.
      You Abdul, have one body, which can function only if all your limbs, (hands, legs, etc.) your sensory organs (eyes, ears, etc.) your food processing organs(stomach intestines, etc.), your blood circulation system, and atleast a 100 other systems in your body are connected to each other, and work in unison, for a common goal, a common purpose, or a common intention. No one part exists for itself. Your left hand can massage your right hand, or kill a mosquito sitting on your leg, but will not be able to massage itself. Your eye if disconnected from your body and kept in a plate, will not survive for long, and will not be of any use to the body. If a small single human body is composed of so many different parts, we can imagine how many more parts God must be made up of. But this does not mean that all your parts have a different identity. Each cell in your body will be built and assembled according to a plan which will be unique to you Abdul, and will be present in each of your cell. No other Abdul lathefs in this world, or even your blood brother will not have a plan identical to yours. But in your body, there can be many redundant items (extra limbs, extra kidney, a quart of blood, etc.) , which you can do away with, and still survive as a living entity, and fulfil your purpose in life. But there are 3 different, but interdependent systems in a body, without which it will be impossible to perform anything purposeful. They are your brain, your muscles, and your nervous system (with sensors for vision, hearing touch, etc.) All other systems are required to support these main 3 systems.
      The three similar systems in a computer will be the CPU, the software /operating system, and the input / output systems (key board, monitor, printer etc.).
      Independently, they will all be useless Even the best software alone cannot do anything. The CPU /alone cannot do anything, and even the best printer will be of no use if there are no CPU and software. All three are necessary to make one computer.The smartness of the best CPU or software can be seen by others only if there is an equally efficient monitor, or printer, or speakers.
      In God’s case, the CPU with the nerves or wires may be likened to the Holy spirit, which produces and delivers the signals and voltages, and currents required to the Body,or input/ output (Jesus)to execute the orders or requirements of decided by the software (Father).
      All these units have to truthfully execute their respective jobs for the computer to function at all, and all three are equally important, and the computer will not exist if any one of them is absent.
      Though the analogies are not perfect, I hope that you will understand from them, why Jesus said the following
      “I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father instructs me.”
      I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:5-7)
      but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father.
      “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
      “The Father and I are one.” (John 10:30)

      Abdul will benefit much if you read the Bible in its entirety, rather than only what the Muslim teachers or books show you from here and there, because quoting out of context, anybody can twist the meaning of what was meant.
      If you read the Bible with an intention to understand it rather than to pick points to justify mistakes in Islam, your efforts will be amply rewarded.

      • Aloya says:

        It seems that you’re the one talking out of context.

        “The Father and I are one.” (John 10:30)

        In the Bible the Jesus said to his 14 disciples ‘You and and I are one’. This make them God too innit?

        • Tony Francis says:

          Hi aloya,
          To prove that I had quoted out of context, you are not only quoting out of context, but also quoting incorrectly. The closest to what you have quoted, is John 17:21.
          Just to show that you are quoting from a standard Bible, and not from a Koran or a hadith, it will help if you show in your posting, where you are quoting from.

          King James Bible John 17:21:
          “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

          More over,

          When Jesus is confronted with a charge of blasphemy by the Jews, for declaring that He was the Son of God,
          he defended his statement as follows.

          John 10:34
          Jesus answered them,
          Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? …
          He was quoting from the Psalms (82:6)

          Psalm 82:6

          I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. …

          Kindly show me which part of the above is out of context with what we were discussing, and I shall try to explain if you are willing to understand.

      • Abdul Iraki says:

        Hi Francis,I have taken quite a long time studying both the Quran and the Bible(10 years to be precise)and the point I was trying to make is that there is a huge difference between knowing God and knowing about him, knowing the bible and living it.And as you have pointed out anything that you(or me)has to say can be so easily taken out of context.The most important thing you should know Francis is that the ridges and rifts that have separated religions have in most cases been man made and remain so to this day.You can create an enemy out of anyone and for any reason.The choice is yours to make.I look foward to hearing from you again Francis.

      • Abdul Iraki says:

        Hi Francis,I have taken quite a long time studying both the Quran and the Bible(10 years to be precise)and the point I was trying to make is that there is a huge difference between knowing God and knowing about him, knowing the bible and living it.And as you have pointed out anything that you(or me)has to say can be so easily taken out of context.The most important thing you should know Francis is that the ridges and rifts that have separated religions have in most cases been man made and remain so to this day.You can create an enemy out of anyone and for any reason.The choice is yours to make.I look forward to hearing from you again Francis.

        • Tony Francis says:

          Some men under the influence of Satan’s spirit of “division, separation, and disintegration” certainly are responsible for many splits in the church, and many other organisations. In such cases, the faiths of these churches are not very different; only the earthly heads of the divisions of churches are different.
          But there are some religions whose teachings are against the teachings of Christianity.

          For example: Christianity teaches “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”

          Some religions deny Jesus Christ the Son, and God the Father. Such differences between religions cannot be said as man made ridges and rifts. The origin of such differences and such religions must be Satan himself

          • kamaa kawaida says:

            I agree with you completely on that Mr. Francis although the you should realise that the most important aspect of our religion is to be emissaries of Christ. We can not do that by trying to prove that we in a superior religion but by demonstating Jesus love in us toward them.

      • Jose Schab says:

        Tony Francis says “CPU the holy spirit. Input/output = Jesus and the software= the Father…”. God we’re Gods already…since we developed a communication system just like Creation. We are as smart as He is. Wow

        • Tony Francis says:

          @ J Schab

          I wish you read my small post completely, instead of reading it like you read your bible – from here and there.
          I welcome constructive criticism and corrections / alternate explanations.
          Out of curiosity, I would like to see your comments on Father= Ice, Son= Water, & Holy Spirit= Steam.

          • Jose Schab says:

            Tony,
            I’m not a religious person neither the issues these organizations bring about is something that I am interested in. My reply had nothing about religion or your believes. I am concern about natural things and not the unnatural ones. I believe that it is not possible to make comparisons between these dif realities and nothing will come out from this kind of arguing. Sorry

            • Tony Francis says:

              Dear Mr. Schab,

              I thought that we had in these discussions only intelligent people who were sincerely searching for truth and the reason for their existence. I am sorry that I did not realize that there were also people here who just wanted to waste their time as well as of others, and didn’t care whether things were this way or any other.

              • Jose Schab says:

                Tony Francis,
                I replied you in a moderately way but your answer was insulting. You must be the most intelligent person in this blog. Congratulations but I pass. I won’t play your religious games. Bye

    • Des Scahill says:

      The three states of water – the most prolific substance on the planets’ surface – is a good analogy for the Trinity. Ice, Water and Steam are all atomically identical, (all three are molecules of H2O), but each is somewhat distinctly different in the way it affects its surrounding environment

      The analogy is not a perfect one of course – but then… if we could FULLY comprehend/understand God then of course we would be “God” ourselves.

    • Paul Fernandez says:

      Abdul,I will use the same line of reasoning which I had with some Jehovah witness in proving that Jesus is God.Ten years have gone by and they have not got back to me.What you wrote does not fit with what the bible says

      1.Why did jesus accept worship?
      a)Jesus specifically told the devil that only Jehovah is worthy of worship(matt 3:10)yet He accept worship.The apostles knew that God is one i.e Jehovah yet they worship Jesus(Matt 28:17. He was worshipped
      b)as a baby-matt 2:11
      c)as a man-Matt 14:33,John 9.38
      d after His resurrection-Luke 24:52
      e)together with the father in heaven -Reveal 5:14
      e)angel refuse worship(reveal 19:10)but not Jesus heb 1:6

      2.Why did Jesus forgive sin
      Only Jehovah can fogive sins-Luke 5:12 as sin is an
      offence against God. Yet Jesus forgive sins-Matt 9:2 and
      Luke 7:4

      3: Why are prayers addressed to jesus Acts 7:59-60 and 2
      Corith 12:8

      4: In the old testament isaiah says there is only one
      saviour-God(Isaiah 43:11,45:21).In the new testament paul
      says that God is saviour and Jesus is saviour(titus
      1:3-4,2:10,13. Are there one or two saviour?.The father
      is God and the Son is also God ie they are the same in
      essence(God) but different in person.This requires an
      understanding of the triune(trinity) concept

      5: Jesus calls God his Father(matt 10:32-33)but then makes
      the extra-ordinary claim that He and the Father are
      one-John 10:30

      6: He had the authority to judge whether a person would be
      saved-thief on the cross-Luke 23:24.If authority to
      grant eternal salvation and forgive sins can be
      delegated by God,what then is the difference between God
      and Jesus?

      7: The Son must be given equal honour with the Father-John
      5:23)
      Compare Philippians 2:9-11 and Isaiah 45:23.Jesus
      will get the same honour and respect that is given to God

      Also compare John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14. God is I AM and
      Jesus is also I AM

      8: Jesus knew that God was the judge,but then He also
      claimed to be the judge-John 5:22

      9: In hebrew 1:8 God himself calls Jesus God ‘but to the son
      He says,your throne O God endures forever and….”

      • Jay says:

        So was God YHWH talking to himself from Heaven in Matthew 3:17 when a voice from the heavens said: “This is my son the beloved whom I have approved.” So therefore God was sending approval to himself from heaven telling his disciples he loved and approved of himself because he was on earth and got baptised???? Doesn’t make sense to me!!

        • Ed Kwan says:

          Firstly, at Math 3:17, Jesus had not called any of his disciples, as such it was not the Father telling the disciples…rather God was speaking to John the Baptiser, so that he could later testify to the priests and levites sent by the jews, in John 1:19-51, as to why he knew who Jesus is.
          You will find that in Mark and Luke, the wording is chnaged from..”This is my Son..” to “You are my beloved Son…”, and this is the Father and the Spirit speaking to Jesus, the two affirming and agreeing as to who Jesus is to them before he began his formal work. At the baptism of Jesus, the three persons of God is revealed, the Father in heaven, the Spirit descending upon Jesus and the Son, on earth receiving the Spirit. The three persons was first revealed to Moses, when it is written, the Lord, proclaiming,”The Lord, the Lord…”Exodus 34:6..and again to Elijah, in 1 Kings 19:11,’The Lord said,”Go out and stand in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by.”
          One was in the cave speaking to him, the other was outside of the cave waiting for the third to pass by.
          A Hebrew cannot see the three persons of God, for it is only those who have eternal life now, that can come to know God , and Jesus Christ whom he sent, as Jesus told the eleven disicples in John 17:3, what and when eternal life is…that knowing allows a disciples to know the three persons..Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
          The reason many are confused by the gospels is because, they are news reports, not testimony..that is why they are called gospels…’good news.’ A news report is not admissible in a court, and can conflict with another report..eg..Math reports there were two demon possessed men at Geresenes, and Luke reports only one…why? Is one inaccurate, or are they reporting on two different event that occurred at the same place , at different times?
          I invite you read the Testimony posted on http://www.holyspiritsworkshop.com, or google ‘Holy Spirit’s Workshop’ and you will find us. i hope this helps..Ed, manager, Holy Spirit’s Workshop.

    • Paul Fernandez says:

      Most of your message is riddled with unbiblical teachings.If i were to refute them one by one it will be pointless and waste of time.Either you do not understand what you read,rely on what people,have got a secret agenda or merely trying to be smart
      I will just pick up one of the many errors.You wrote

      “How deplorable is the fact that those who actually call themselves true Christians are, in fact, themselves engaged in the worship of Christ and, therefore, in the act that is contrary to his own advises!”

      This can easily be refuted.Why did Jesus accept worship?Why did he forgive sins?If God can delegate this function to Jesus,what then is the difeerence between God and Jesus.I use this arguement against the Jehovah witness 10 years ago,and they never got back to me

      Jesus was worshipped as a baby-Matthew 2:11:as a man-Matthew 14:23:after His resurrection Luke 24:52:together with his Father in heaven-Reveal 24:52

      Angels refuse worship(reveal 19:10) but not Jesus-Hebrew 1:6.The apostles knew God is one ie Jehovah,yet worship Jesus-Matthew 28:17,Why?

      Jesus specifically told the devil that only God is worthy of worship(Matthew 3:10)yet he accepted worship.Why?

      He claim that He could grant eternal salvation-John 11:25 and also Luke 23:43(thief on the cross)If this was a mere man speaking,it would be blasphemy

      I do not know your motives,but if you are doing it deliberately,please stop.You are only making a fool of yourself

  5. Joseph Marion says:

    Hey Perry.
    If it is possible to believe a person 110%, I believe you.
    But I thought that I would just ask this question anyway.
    Is it just possible that the universe is so infinitely large that it has the capacity to create life on its own?
    And if just one earth succeeded, could it be also possible that there may be other attemps by the universe to create a back-up planet, or back-up plan. Thanks for your time Perry.
    Sincerely, Joseph Marion

    • perrymarshall says:

      Perhaps the universe is so large it has the capacity to create life, somehow. But where did it get these properties?

      • HI Perry.
        If star is as large as Science imagine is it possible to fell only on third of the rivers and the spring?

      • Jose Schab says:

        Perry,
        Like you’re getting more centered in your replies. If you believe in the occurrance of the Big Bang (BB) 14,5B years ago as read several times in your entries and all we had then was a random universe made out of start’s dust then it was nature which created life since DNA appeared only when living things started their existance way ahead in time. And yes there was a before the BB started forming the universe. That was that little infinitecimal point from which the BB occured. Who placed that point there? that is the question that takes my sleep away.

        • Tony Francis says:

          That infinitecimal point is actually a pinhole on the surface plane made up of the axii of the 8th and 9th dimensions through which a glorious infinite universe on the other side of the plane is expelling dirty space, energy and matter into our universe. This point is also called the eye of the storm, and is the center of a blackhole of the other universe through which it excretes waste and evil into this world. Our universe, which is full of excrement from the other universe, is expanding, and is fertile soil to plant seeds WORD), for growing plants (churches), for harvesting good fruits for use in the glorious universe.

          • Jose Schab says:

            Tony,
            Very interesting your point of view but it crashes with reality-period. Nor your words are fertile soil neither “your” churches grow anything that I know of that could be harvested. The question that I posted at the end of my Perry’s entry doesn’t mean that the answer is something unnatural. We’ll discover that sooner than later as manhood discovered DNA not so long ago and “new” theories were displayed just then.
            If you play religious it’s OK but stay out of science, It is not your field of competence otherwise you could’ve answered what I replied to Perry- that you can read above, which was the important point for discussion. How about one reply from you about first appearance of DNA. Unless you believe the Earth is 10K years old. If that’s so PLS don’t reply because I/everybody already know what your answer will be. Don’t waste your precious time.

            • Tony Francis says:

              I shall try to answer your “scientific” question with a very “non-religious” answer.
              I do not know much about a normal man’s DNA.
              But I once saw a dream in which God put a spoon of garbage along with a glass of water and a pinch of platinum dust into a kitchen blender. He then put it in a stainless steel pressure cooker and cooked the mixture for 3 hours and after cooling, he observed two worms wriggling in the soup. They were blind when they were in the pressure cooker. But when they were exposed to sun light, they developed eyes. They looked so ugly with their new eyes, that God threw them away. But to avoid getting hurt during the fall, they developed wings. They were afraid that God would destroy them, and to avoid getting extinct, they developed some sexual organs and started procreating themselves. Some of them got sick of flying around on their wings, and shrivelled them up, but instead grew tails with which they could climb trees. They came to be known as monkeys. Some monkeys pondered about their origins, and after about 10K years, became the inventors of evolution theory.
              I do not know how much of my dream is true, but I thought it would satisfy your quest for your true origins.

              • James Potter says:

                I don’t think your dream to be altogether accurate but Cool that was quite a good answer man wow really , it was a veiled insult wasn’t it.

      • William Snyder says:

        Preception is the Key to Understanding. “Knowledge without understanding is Fruitless”copyright.
        I appreciate you sincere efforts to convey an easy to understand definition of Universal Existence. There is One Creator, with whom we are all relative, in a universe of ULTIMATE LOVE, This the Gift of Creation. Seek the Gift of Peace, Give of Yourself to your Fellow Man, and you will be expressing the indwelling love of Jesus Christ, who resides within us All. “That which you Think about (Dwell upon in thought) becomes your Reality”, if you dwell on Peace, so shall peace be with you, if you dwell on War, so shall war be with you, for it is in the Thoughts of Man, that God comes forth. God is Your Father, He is your Brother, he is your Creator, and you and I are ALL ONE WITH GOD. The TRUTH is you Can not Get Away From Yourself, NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO, THERE YOU ARE, So ignoring this Fact does not Extiquish you from Existence, it simply belies Ignorence. For I was Told, but Didn’t Hear, I Heard But Couldn’t Understand, and the Knowledge which was percived was confused, where We and the Universe ARE FUSED ONE WITH GOD, You Can’t Get Away, YOU SIMPLY ARE THE CREATION OF GOD, Be Happy in This Knowlege, for He who understands All things, is no further away than you next breath. May God Reveal to ALL HIS never Ending Love and Peace. Peace be with you All, And may you see God in All of His Creations, He is Present within us All, yet we seem to want to ignore this, for we sense inferiority without equality, and it is in your FAITH and BELIEF that we are one with God that will bring you Happiness of Oneness. What is God’s, Is God’s, YOU CAN NOT Get Away. He Loves You !!! The Father has thrown us all in the Pool of Life,,, He accepts that you will get wet, for What man will not Sin in a Sinful World, but it is in the Lables that we understand the Differences, and the Commonality of Us All. I pray for God’s Will to Be Done On Earth as it is In Heaven. AMEN.

  6. Joseph Marion says:

    hi perry.
    Afrer listening to the entire seminar, I came to realize that the Reformation, and the growth of science was as changing to the Catholic church, as was eating the apple from the tree of life was to man in the garden.
    joe.

  7. abu iraki says:

    Hi Mr. Perry i wanted to thank you for the info although i know you’ve barely scratched the surface.Please continue to send me the e-mails unless (i expressly request you not to!!!!! just kidding.) Anyway I’ve one question for you,Do you think the sequence of events in the creation story of gen. 1 are perfectly synchronized with the Darwinian progression of evolution. Its always been my feeling that they do.Please reply.

    • perrymarshall says:

      yes, Genesis 1 matches the Darwinian time line. Interesting coincidence, eh?

      • Brett Passmore says:

        But isn’t the sequence TOTALLY different? For example In Genesis vegetation occured before the sun existed. (God had provided a different type of light the first 3 days)
        And…. Isnt the time line of Darwinian evolution all whacked with the Biblical account? For example… death entered the world only after Adam and Eve sinned. But, Darwin evolution calls for millions of years of dying things before sin. Before sin… God called everything GOOD.
        Sorry if you have already addressed these issues.

        • JoeLaban says:

          i thought there IS a kind of fungi that can live WITHOUT sunlight…but the energy is there…or am i wrong?

          • alexk says:

            Fungi live without sunlight because they do not use photosynthesis. They get their energy from they decay that they feed on.

            • JoeLaban says:

              True, alexk. Turns out that there’s a big open door of logical “what if” on the topic… So, what if before the sunlight able to breaks the cloudy sky derived from the earth-shaping process after the big bang (here we go again) that surrounding this young planet long time ago; the “plantations” was acknowledges to the early form of plantation? Fungi? It does, by today’s microbiology, considered as a floral-like microorganism than bacteria. Fungi also able to live under extreme environment properties such as minimum H2O, non O2, low pH, etc… but maybe i’m just going too far with those basic knowledge… I suppose.

        • Stef Coulombe says:

          My problem exactly. Incidentally… I notice that one of my comments from quite a while ago is yet to be “moderated”, but I’ll exerpt from it:

          How can death precede sin?
          Even allowing for a pre-Genesis earth, to which Lucifer fell, etc…, how can *human* death as necessitated by Darwinian evolution possibly have occured before Adam and Eve, unless the whole account of the Fall is a lie? (If we claim that the Garden of Eden was purely allegorical, then we may as well pretend that the rest of the Bible is just allegory- – who decides what is literal and what is fiction? Jesus didn’t challenge the veracity of the Creation account; was He just an allegory, too?)

          Or, were the “missing links”, by being only 99% human, not human enough to have an eternal soul? Or, do we depend on God “stepping in” to elevate chimpanzees to human status by “breathing His Spirit” into them?

          On the other hand, if God literally formed Adam from the dust on the ground, then why is the rest of Genesis 1 so hard to believe?

        • mick tulk says:

          http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm
          The talk (streaming and downloadable)by Dr. Hugh Ross is the answer you seem to be looking for. Its Perrys site. ( I think this talk is still available. It will answer all your questions but you have to be sincere enough in your search for truth to listen to the WHOLE thing….. ( Although the part about synchronicity is toward the beginning )
          Yes , its about 70 mins long but youve got 70 mins of crystal clear unpacking of verifiable scientific demonstrations how the scientific model is parallel to the record of Genesis. Go on dont be afraid it,ll blow your pet theory away! love Mick.

          • Richard Ruquist says:

            If so Re: “how the scientific model is parallel to the record of Genesis. ” does that not just reinforce the scientific model and negate creationism? Klem

      • Jose Schab says:

        Perry,
        Sorry but it doesn’t. Told us Genesis is before de BB. Darwin is after. No coincidence then if talking about syncronism because this word means at same time. It is not possible to place natural and unnatural things in the same drawer.

  8. Ulloa Pablo says:

    I have a request to make:

    My name is Pablo. I´m from Guadalajara, Mexico.

    Is it possible to get permission from Perry Marshall to translate some of his materials from Cosmicfingerprints into Spanish? The idea is to share with other people down here (Spanish speaking). I find that scientific oriented people (Atheists too), college students, and others as well, can be reached with the message of the Gospel using Perry´s material as a reference when necessary.

    If so, what do I need to get authorization from him?

  9. hojjat khalili says:

    hello again.
    would you please tell me what is the end?

  10. Rex Estephan says:

    Hey perry, what is your response to Abdul Lathef’s (above) on the trinity? He has a valid point except for his claim on Mohammed to be sent(by Jesus) and not the Holy Spirit.Mohammed simply started his own religion instead of propagating the only true religion of the time if he was speaking on the same voice as Jesus Christ.

    • perrymarshall says:

      A lot of people claim the trinity was invented in 300AD. This is not true – read Origen which is 180AD. Or just read the New Testament.

    • James Potter says:

      Why don’t you go and see if Abdul was right about Islam and Christianity both being God’s own will? If God truly controls everything then everything that happens must be due to his plan which means you can’t just go ahead and say that God has no idea what he’s doing ( which would be Blasphemy) you’ll just have to find out why God created Islam then it must have a reason for coming about and the if God was sending another pair of instructions for his everlasting eternal extra u-universal faith which changes on how to pray from time to time and species to species ( include aliens of course God made them too)why would he give his creation the wrong material.God made SATAN too I can’t see how the devil could even manage to put a particle of dust against God’s will that’s like you or I declaring war on God and winning and destroying the universe.creating an entire faith is far to out of reach for a measly red horned liar (ref devil) you can’t say that the devil has any real influence as to the way God Let’s his world unfold.

      • Tony Francis says:

        I recently planned and built a farm house. Besides other rooms, it had a dining room, a toilet, and a kitchen. There was also a bio-digestor gas plant to produce bio gas which is used for cooking in the kitchen. The waste from the farm, kitchen, and toilets after digesting, is used as manure in the farm.
        Though everything was planned and made by me, different rules and standards have to be maintained in the different rooms I had built, for efficient operation of the farm house. Some areas like the kitchen, and dining room have to be maintained spotlessly clean and hygeinic, and nothing from the toilet or bio-digestor should be allowed to contaminate anything in the kitchen or dining room. Anything brought into the kitchen are scrupulously cleaned before they are allowed in.
        So if I can plan and make a system that functions in which there are clean places like the dining room, and unclean places like inside the bio-digester plant, it is very much possible for the Omnipotent God to have holy places like the Heaven, and evil places like the Hell, and intermediate places like earth where he could plant seeds (His WORD) and grow fruits for use in his Heaven. The waste ofcourse, he will not allow into Heaven, but will destroy them in Hell. Satan could be in God’s plan, just like the bio-digestor was in my plan of my farmhouse.

  11. Erwin Celades says:

    Mr. Perry your idea and opinion towards our individual Faith to God give me a big interest.. I am now on my 30 years on earth and while reaching this journey i have a lot of things that i want to know about, but i don’t know how,where and who help me to have this things answered. i want to read and study the life of those people who we say they are blessed because they live directly connected to our God… The story on the Revelation is so scary about the future happening of man on this planet. As a person who love his life i am asking your favor to help me, to guide me and somehow,someday can also shared what do i have learn from searching the the Truth. I am only from a poor family, i don’t have see both my parents since 3 years old. I want to be a missionary of God or i want live people who are in their mission to spread the Truth of God..I hope you can support me and help me..Thank you.

  12. Hi there,
    Abdul, I want to tell you something, because you are on the wrong way, that you can’t return by your self but by the will of GOD only. Those who are Christians are returned only by the will of GOD, reading bible doesn’t mean that knowing the truth. Knowing the truth is the will of Jesus for those that he has chosen. If someone is not chosen he can never understand the word of GOD correctly!! I advice you to read (John 6)

    Q1, Is it possible that a loving GOD can allow Jihad?

    • aloy says:

      Hi there,

      I quote ‘reading bible doesn’t mean that knowing the truth’. You make me laugh man, then what’s purpose of reading the Bible if not knowing the truth?

      A1, Is it ok to allow someone to come into your house and take everything? You think Jihad is just about killing people? Tell me the place Muslim launch Jihad and I tell you why. thanks

      • Tony Francis says:

        I quote “You make me laugh man, then what’s purpose of reading the Bible if not knowing the truth?”

        I agree with you 100%. There is no other purpose other than to know the Truth, because the Bible is 100% TRUTH, told in a simple language that can be understood even by the most illiterate, if it is read with the right intentions, which will happen only if If he is chosen by Jesus to understand the word of GOD correctly.

        Because Jesus said – quoting from Matthew 7:6 :
        “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine”

        • JoeLaban says:

          well said, Mr. Francis…and to add a bit…knowing the truth is not the same with reading…

        • James Potter says:

          I agree with you absolutely that’s why I can’t just go ahead and tell you guys the secrets we know (me and a few 300 people give or take) you’l just have to wait till your time .

      • Tony Francis says:

        Quoting you again from the same post
        “You think Jihad is just about killing people? Tell me the place Muslim launch Jihad and I tell you why.'” .

        A Christian cannot justify killing of any human beings to retaliate any kind of injustice in this world, because they follow Jesus Christ who taught them to show the other cheek, if they are hit on one.
        Revenge is not men to execute. Only God can execute Justice, because only He knows everything.
        Can you fight Evil with evil? If you try, evil will only multiply. If anybody teaches otherwise, he must be from the EVIL ONE “SATAN”, who seeks neither Peace nor Justice, but Unrest, and destruction, for mankind.

    • Abdul Iraki says:

      Hi , Temesgen
      What yu are talking about there is what theologians like to call predestination? right?
      Well as much as “many are called but few are chosen” its still his will “that none may perish but that all may be saved” So see what Matt 12:11 has to say about that.As for Jihad I can tell you for sure that no religion in the world has a perfect track record , not even Christianity just check out what happened in the middle ages and you’ll realize that as a church we have our own dirty linen as well.Dont make the mote in your brother’s eye a priority, it leads them farther fro the truth than closer to it.
      Yours, Abdul.

    • Jose Schab says:

      If we are chosen to reach Him why bother posting Temesgen?
      You’re blowing Free Will and reading the bible. No use

    • James Potter says:

      True Jihad which is Arabic for Crusade is not killing one man or another for political reasons disguised as being religious but the constant Daily war that goes inside a person whenever we fight temptation in the world around us. Like going to church rather than staying home and watching TV or donating money which you wanted to use to buy yourself underwear with etc.

      Don’t mistake the Taliban’s crazy rampage as a divinely ordered grand scale war against evil (that’ what the Taliban and stuff believe which is obviously wrong)

  13. Joey Escabo says:

    Hi all, Interesting stuff! Just regading the last comment, I was under the impression that genesis took place over 7 days with all life being created in 1, while Darwinian evolution exains speciation over billions of years? Perry, are you able to clarify this for me?
    Thanks very much.

  14. Justin Stephenson says:

    Hi Perry,

    I am writing to you from South Africa and would like your opinion on the fact there is only NOW, my reasoning I have never been able to go back to Yesterday or forward to Tomorrow.

  15. Joey Escabo says:

    Hi again, not sure what that link about cosmology was supposed to suggest, but going back to my question about evolution, whats the deal with the Darwinin account of life compared to the biblical account?
    Thanks.
    Joey.

  16. Prabhakar Ghayal says:

    Hi Perry,

    Have got ur mail. I want to know that what is difference between protestant and catholic.

    Thank you,

    Yours Truely
    Prabhakar

    • Tony Francis says:

      A Catholic is a Christian who is a member of the Church whose head is the “Pope” in Vatican. The Catholic Church can trace its origin to the very beginning of Christianity, when it was established by Peter obeying Jesus’instructions.

      Matthew 16:18 :
      And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

      As foretold, the Catholic church has survived about 2000 years, and overall, (like mankind,) is still flourishing, though like in all things in this world there have been rots, and gangrenes, and fights and splits and break-offs in different places, at different times.

      Those who broke off from the Catholic church “protesting” against some injustices of the church are generally termed “Protestants”.

      Looking at it from a human perspective, it may have been better for Christianity and the world, if the “protesters” stayed within the church while protesting, and rectifying any flaws. But many vested interests took the flaws in the Church as an opportunity to get out, and set up their own churches and try to become the “Popes” themselves. Some of them started new divisions only to have freedom to divorce their old wives and marry younger ones, while many modern ones are sprouting here and there, only to make lots of money to allow the detractors very luxurious lives at the expense of their followers.

      But God must be having a bigger plan for salvation (like when he allowed Satan to separate from His Kingdom, taking along with him a third of all the angels. ).

      In my understanding, God must be facing the same problem as a football coach training his teams before a game. In order to bring out the best from all his boys, he will have to split his boys into teams, and make them play against each other, or like in computer games, make them play against a “virtual” opponent. “Satan” may be a virtual opponent (a lie – which does not exist- having the opposite properties of “I AM” which should be “I AM NOT”) made to oppose man to bring up his standards. Once his job is over, “I AM NOT” may be just “switched off” .
      In the case of men, like the football coach, he will watch and choose the best players from all the teams. So God will chose for his Kingdom “good people who mend rather than break, who construct rather than destroy, who heal rather than maim” irrespective of which team they are in.

      • Stef Coulombe says:

        I really hope readers don’t think you speak on behalf of Christians, or with any authority on the Bible. If you have so much free time that you can add your misinterpretation of the Scriptures to every possible topic, then you have enough time to actually read the Bible and ask God what it means.

        Nothing at all in the Bible suggests that God will “choose the best players from all the teams”. It’s not in the Bible. The whole point of salvation through grace is that the best is not good enough–only faith in Jesus Christ can redeem us. That’s the message of the Gospel; it’s the message of the whole Bible.

        There are plenty of warnings in the Bible that in the end times, there will be “wolves in sheep’s clothing”– false teachers of every sort. Be warned–it does not end well for the wolf!

        • Tony Francis says:

          Jesus, though He was Son of God, did not approve of what was practiced in His Father’s House. He lived, fought and died opposing the “learned men in the Church” who misquoted Scripture to justify their evil deeds.
          Today also, we have in “Churches”, leaders and “learned men” who misguide people claiming that they would be “SAVED” even after committing grave sins, evil and crimes, if they just join their Church, pay money, and get baptized. According to them; their deeds and words don’t count; the only condition for salvation is membership in their Church, baptism and paying of money to the cult leader.
          Jesus was reffering to these “CULT Leaders” when warning about “wolves in sheep’s clothing”

          • Stef Coulombe says:

            Wrong, He was referring to false teachers of every sort! Which includes YOU if you continue to “teach” that God created evil, that God created us because He was bored, that without sin we’d all be “bored”, that God and Satan are “equal but opposite”, that books that disagree with the Bible are “also true”, that absolute Truth is subjective according to the believer, that Jesus is not the ONLY way, truth and life, …………
            You, sir, are a wolf, and by claiming the name of Christian and saying “oh, I believe in the Bible, but…” you ARE the wolf in sheep’s clothing.

            Be warned.

            • Tony Francis says:

              “Which includes YOU if you continue to “teach” that God created evil”

              I appreciate your loyalty to your church and to your faith. But I wish you were loyal for the right reasons.

              Who according to you did create “EVIL”?
              Was it Eve, or satan or the serpent ?
              If so, Who created Eve, and satan and the serpent ?

              In Exodus 9:12, 10:20, who hardened the heart of the Pharaoh ?

              • Martin Lagerwey says:

                Hello Tony

                The world is a mixture of good and evil, words that are laced with religious meaning. Since God is defined only by good things, evil is left to be explained. Any explanation presents something like a parent blaming the child (created being) for the house being a mess. Ultimately God is responsible and any test, challenge, or whatever doesn’t make for a good excuse. Einstein said that the only excuse for God in allow all the injustices in history is for him to be non existent. You may say he didn’t understand God or the salvation plan but I expect he did and considered it unlikely. When atheists complain when they see injustice they look at evolution and struggle for survival and this explains good and evil in the world pretty well.

                I find it sad that people use the bible or koran to attack people. The bible is so big it is used to prove almost anything. It teaches that whales (mammals) are fish (and created on day five, before land animals. Don’t take this book too seriously. I try to recognize errors when they occur in any theory, book or scripture because it is vital if we want to find truth.

                • Tony Francis says:

                  Different rules and standards have to be maintained in the different rooms in a farm house I had built, for its efficient operation. Some areas like the kitchen, and dining room have to be maintained spotlessly clean and hygienic, and nothing from the toilet or bio-digestor should be allowed to contaminate anything in the kitchen or dining room. Anything brought into the kitchen are scrupulously cleaned and boiled using the gas produced in the bio-digestor before they are allowed in.
                  So if I can plan and make a system that functions in which there are clean places like the dining room, and unclean places like inside the bio-digester plant, it is very much possible for the Omnipotent God to have holy places like the Heaven, and evil places like the Hell, and intermediate places like earth where he could plant seeds (His WORD) and grow fruits for use in his Heaven. The waste of course, he will not allow into Heaven, but will destroy them in Hell. Satan could be in God’s plan, just like the bio-digestor was in my plan of my farmhouse.

  17. Yahweh says:

    Listen, for those of you who are debating to defend your belief. Try to turn off your computer, and pray to your one and only GOD to turn it on, and shall you not touch the ‘on’ button on your computer. Keep on praying if the computer is still not on. Keep on praying until the computer is on.

    • Gary Gillman says:

      Given that the name Yahweh is the name with which GOD answered Moses when asked at the burning bush, “Who shall I say has sent me?”, am I to understand that that is who You consider Yourself to be? If You are indeed GOD then I would You mind answering a couple of questions as the ambiguity of Your commands has me confused.

      If I understand You correctly, Your first command is that I TRY (I capitalize for emphasis only)to turn off my computer; and the second, that I pray…(etc). My uncertainty lies in not knowing whether success in turning off my computer is to be taken as confirmation, or denial, of your existence. If I TRY and do manage to turn my computer off, will it mean: a) that You do NOT exist – because You failed to prevent the success of my action or b) that You DO exist – because You enabled me to succeed in that action. I ask this most humbly, because I believe You, Lord Jesus, when You say, as recorded by your disciple John, “apart from Me you can do nothing”. I guess I feel there is little point my trying to interpret any success (or otherwise) with Your second command until I know the meaning of your first command.

      Concerning Your second command Lord, Your Word makes it very plain that You don’t always give what Your people ask for in prayer. I’m thinking of when King David prayed and prayed and prayed that you would spare the life of Bathsheba’s illigitimate child, and You didn’t. As King David quite plainly didn’t see Your refusal to do as he asked as proof of Your non-existence so, presumably, neither should I. So, Lord, should I take it as proof that You DO exist if You turn on my computer without my touching it or, if You DON’T turn on my computer?

      Also Lord, will You answer these questions by communicating with me directly in some way or should I check these comments for Your reply?

      Oh, and er, Yahweh, if in fact you are NOT GOD, you might care to consider how the true GOD views blasphemy, because that’s what your use of His name is. And if your reply would be that you are an atheist and you know that GOD doesn’t exist, then you’d better hope that you’re right.

    • JoeLaban says:

      Actually my GOD does answer my pray…he made my hands switch the button…L.O.L…so what you goin’ to do about it, yahweh? telling me deluded? like hawkins? understand this, yahweh…or whatever…you misjudged love with sex…and god existence to magical fairytale…it’s not that you’re smart to deny GOD…it’s your inability to believe that takes over your mind…

  18. Stef Coulombe says:

    As a “young earth Christian”, I must ask two things which I have not yet found coherent answers for:

    1) How can death precede sin? (Even allowing for a pre-Genesis earth, to which Lucifer fell, etc…, how can *human* death as necessitated by Darwinian evolution possibly have occured before Adam and Eve–were the “missing links”, by being only 99% human, not human enough to have an eternal soul? Or do we depend on God “stepping in” to elevate chimpanzees to human status by “breathing His Spirit” into them? If God literally formed Adam from the dust on the ground, then why is the rest of Genesis 1 so hard to believe?)

    2) In what way does “And there was evening, and there was morning-the ____th day” NOT suggest a twenty-four hour day? Besides, how is a single, non-repeated “week” of seven time periods supposed to be a model for the repeated seven-day week, with its Sabbath day of rest (which was clearly an important concept to God)? If the week of creation is still on its seventh day, then the human life would be a single week of seven time periods, with the “Sabbath” modelling the “retirement age”–not a regular, repeated day of worship and rest.

    Just a thought: there are about 300 tested dating methods; how many of them support a very old earth? (This is why evolution is so un-scientific: “wrong” methods have been rejected not because of inconsistency, but because they gave the “wrong” answer–as defined by the evolutionists, who were looking for evidence to support their belief, not for truth.)

    Mr. Marshall, I appreciate what you’ve done with this site, but on this matter, sir, I must disagree with you–and your characterization of “YEC”s as anti-science (and almost anti-Christian, in some comments!) is sad to see. I haven’t the time to continue a debate in this matter; I would ask, though, that all truth-seekers continue to pray for God’s guidance in *all* things. I shall do likewise; should God show me that I am in error, my support will be fully behind the “cosmic fingerprint” theology. Until then, however, the Bible says “seven days” so I believe *seven days*.

    God bless.

    • perrymarshall says:

      Stef,

      1) The Bible never says that there was no death before the fall. In fact if you carefully read Romans 5, where this belief normally comes from, you’ll see that it’s talking about spiritual death not physical death.

      If you stop and think about it, if Adam and Eve could eat fruit, then death had to exist before the fall, because you can’t eat fruit without killing it. Either that or the world operated according to an altogether different set of laws then – in which case it is not possible to even discuss the history of the earth within any kind of scientific paradigm.

      I don’t think the rest of Genesis 1 is hard to believe. With a few very simple assumptions it fits the facts perfectly. See http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/blog/genesis1

      Question: If Jesus could be both man and God by virtue of Spirit inhabiting a human body, then why couldn’t animal flesh similarly become a human being simply by God breathing the breath of life (ie spirit) into Adam?

      2) I agree that “there was evening, there was morning” in its most literal form suggests a 24 hour day. But “God walked with Adam in the cool of the day” similarly suggests that God has legs and feet. “evening and morning” is a Jewish phrase for completion.

      I think one of the strongest arguments for day = period of time is the fact that the 7th day never comes to an end. We’re in the 7th day now.

      I am only an expert on one dating method: The speed of light. I’m an electrical engineer. I’ve measured it myself. It is 3E8 meters per second, it is not changing, it is a vital fixed constant in physics and it affects almost everything in science.

      When they tell you that a star is 1 million light years away, you can be sure it really is that far away.

      If the universe is only 6000 years old then all we can say is that scientific measurements are lying to us because they all indicate a very old universe. It creates horrible epistemology problems if you assume God made a young universe to look old.

      2nd comment about dating methods: One will be hard pressed to find any geologist anywhere who embraces a young earth. The simple fact of having a job at an oil company and drilling for oil and understanding the millions of layers of sediment is, by itself, persuasive enough to convince almost anyone that the earth is extremely old.

      My general observation is that nearly all dating methods indicate a very old earth. Heck, there are some trees that are more than 8,000 years old. We know that just by counting rings!

      I ask you to consider whether any of us consistently assume the most literal possible interpretation of the Bible? I really don’t think so. I think that Genesis is written in fairly poetic language and I submit to you that if you make some simple assumptions (see the Genesis 1 link above) and loosen up your views just a little bit, the Bible matches modern science with utterly remarkable accuracy.

      • Martin Lagerwey says:

        Stef,
        I will leave your answers as Perry has responded well. My comment relates to your difficulty with YEC being characterised as unscientific.

        “Until then, however, the Bible says “seven days” so I believe *seven days*.”

        This is not scientific.

        Answers from the bible are not scientific. If the bible says that whales are fish, that is not science. If the bible says that bats are birds, that is not science. If the bible says that the sun stopped in the sky for an hour, that is no scientific. If the bible says that Jesus has no (earthly) father, that is not scientific. These things can usually be tested and cannot be repeated so may be untrue by scientific method.

        Of course there are many earth clocks and they prove an old earth. As an evolutionist who you now presume to be unscientific I can tell you that geology proved an old earth (Lyell)and then Darwin realized evolution was likely since enough time was shown to be available. Your dismissal of evolutionary science is necessary because it challenges your core beliefs.

        If we think the earth is flat, and it certainly looks like it is, we can test this idea by science or faith. By faith, we should research the bible and see what it has to say on the matter. This seems to be your approach. By science we should test each theory with evidence, like circumnavigation or long distance photos and know for sure.

        Maybe we should loosen our interpretation of the bible just a little bit.

  19. aloy says:

    Hi,

    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. (Exodus 20:4)

    Every church, home, car of Christians has the graven image of Jesus. Why is that?

    Thanks

    • Stef Coulombe says:

      Context. By creatively ignoring context, any text (of sufficient length) can be interpreted as saying almost anything–what do you think lawyers get paid for, actually “understanding” the law?

      Exodus 20:5 makes it clear under what context “likenesses” are forbidden. I mean, really, I know certain religions like to be obnoxiously obtuse in reading scriptures, but if any and every possible meaning of “likeness” were meant here, then not only every picture, portrait and photograph would be sinful (how many Muslims do you know who keep no photographic records, who have absolutely no pics or photos on their computers, who refuse to have any “likeness” made of themselves even if it means not getting a driver’s license or a passport…?)–in addition, every language based on pictographs (Chinese and its derivatives, for example) would be sinful. By creatively (legalistically) interpreting that one verse out of context, we can declare holy war on 1/6 (or more) of the world simply because of the language they use.

      Interpreting the Bible literally is good; taking words of out context is bad. Otherwise, we could base a whole religion on the fact that “Jesus wept.” Wouldn’t that be fun–Jesus wept, so you should too. Come on, start crying. Cry like you mean it!

      If you were honestly confused, then I hope this helps; if you were looking to start an argument…sorry, try again. ;p

      (By the way, “Every church, home, car of Christians has the graven image of Jesus” is what we call a blind generalization. We have pictures of Him–in Bibles, children’s colouring books, …–but I’m pretty sure we don’t have any engravings, carvings or sculptures–“graven images”–of Him in our house, and I’m certain there isn’t one in our car. …You know, we might have a porcelain statue, but that’s not a “graven image” so I don’t think it counts. Or wait, if the mould was “engraved”, does that mean anything made in the mould counts as “graven”…? This is silly. God condemns legalism for good reason.)

      • aloy says:

        I quote ‘(how many Muslims do you know who keep no photographic records, who have absolutely no pics or photos on their computers’ The question is, do they worship the picture?

        Sorry nice try, I’ve waiting for this reply for almost 1 month, yet again. It’s disappointing.

        I quote again, (By the way, “Every church, home, car of Christians has the graven image of Jesus” is what we call a blind generalization.

        It is no blind generalization, failed to admit this is simply laughable. Now you tell me, where does the picture of Jesus come from? Is there any description in the Bible that says Jesus’s face is so and so.

        • Stef Coulombe says:

          Wrong, He was referring to false teachers of every sort! Which includes YOU if you continue to “teach” that God created evil, that God created us because He was bored, that without sin we’d all be “bored”, that God and Satan are “equal but opposite”, that books that disagree with the Bible are “also true”, that absolute Truth is subjective according to the believer, that Jesus is not the ONLY way, truth and life, …………
          You, sir, are a wolf, and by claiming the name of Christian and saying “oh, I believe in the Bible, but…” you ARE the wolf in sheep’s clothing.

          Be warned.

        • Stef Coulombe says:

          (Sorry, previous comment was copied from where it should have been posted…)

          “Sorry nice try, I’ve waiting for this reply for almost 1 month, yet again. It’s disappointing.”

          Yeah, why? No really, why?

          “I quote again, (By the way, “Every church, home, car of Christians has the graven image of Jesus” is what we call a blind generalization.

          It is no blind generalization, failed to admit this is simply laughable.”

          You do realize that throughout history, and today in poor countries, there have been and are homes where there are no images whatsoever; there are Christian homes where they are lucky to have four walls and a roof. So, “blind generalization” is the right description for that nonsense.

          Who cares where the picture of Jesus comes from? Are we calling it “photographic evidence” or something? No? I can draw a stick figure of YOU, write your name above it, and for MY purposes, it is an image of you. Have you given me a description? No? Blasphemy, right?

          You’re still not dealing with the problem. Tell me: are ALL Chinese speakers condemned to hell because they write in a picture-based language?

          Are all two-year-old children sinners BECAUSE they doodle images of animals?

          Some people hate this answer, but CONTEXT does make a difference. Deal with it.

          • aloy says:

            “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image”. The point here is NOT graven, sculptured, engraved, moulded, photographed or what. The point here is that God in the OT is so jealous that you should not have any of His creation worshiped by you in whatever form. Whether it’s graven, sculptured, engraved, moulded, photographed or what does NOT matter – if you are creating another of His creation in whatever form, then you are DOOM.

            • noelbsan says:

              hello aloy,
              i’m new here and don’t know much about this topic, but is this a part of the ten commandment, a covenant exclusively God gave only to his chosen people?

      • GyanP says:

        Stef, this is called verbal catapults. Or, Confuse the topic if it gets uncomfortable.

        • Stef Coulombe says:

          No, this is called “object lesson in stupidity”: taking ideas out of context will ALWAYS cause arguments.

          If I were to take a verse from the Qu’ran out of context, a million and one Muslims would condemn me, and several of them might try to kill me. The Bible, though, we can misquote and take out of context with no consequence whatsoever, and nobody is supposed to object? Smarten up, eh!

      • Albert says:

        The “out of context” argument seems to be the standard reply of the religeous if they have no answer. If I read the verse together with Ex 20:5, it still says making an icon or statue of Mary or Jesus or a saint (one would presume that they are in heaven) and bowing before it and praying to it is not allowed. However you can walk into any roman catholic or eastern orthodox church and even some protestant churches (e.g. Lutheran, Anglican, etc.)and you will see people bowing before- and praying to images of Jesus, Mary and the saints. So the question is quite valid and you have not answered it. Perhaps we need even more context . . .

        • Stef Coulombe says:

          Now *YOU* have the right idea, my friend!
          This would be one of the reasons why Christians and Catholics disagree… (and some of the Christian churches follow some of the older Catholic traditional practices, which many of us also disagree with).
          The only problem is your issue with the “context” answer. ;p

          “So the question is quite valid and you have not answered it.”

          Sorry, but no. The original question is not valid, because NOT every “image” in every “car and home and whatever” is worshipped. In fact, in most Christian churches, that is clearly seen as idolatry.

          The Bible says clearly that worshipping a statue/picture/icon, or praying to the dead, is strictly forbidden. Why does the Roman Catholic church endorse these practices? Ask them. Don’t condemn all Christians because the RC church does those things. (Some churches that call themselves “Christian” also engage in ritualistic sacrifice; others practice polygamy. Just because they say that they follow Christ does NOT mean that they do.)

          (Incidentally, I do NOT speak for the RC church, but my understanding of their explanation is that as “saints” are “not dead anymore”, that makes it ok to pray to them, and the icons–images, statues, …– are basically to help people concentrate, not to “be worshipped”. *I* still think it’s wrong, according to the Bible.)

          • GyanP says:

            Image/Idols/statues are never worshiped. Only God is worshiped. These things are but symbols of God. God is one.
            Man cannot help but think in terms of symbols – whether it is statue, picture, Cross, or Church or Gurudwara, or Mandir, or Mosque. These are all symbols of God.

    • Tony Francis says:

      Why only Jesus Christ? If you strictly follow the quoted Scripture, you will not be able to make a photograph or drawing or even a hologram of anything- a cow, rat, tree or fowl or Marylin Munroe. Do you have anything against Jesus Christ?

  20. mack hall says:

    Shaul wrote, “There is one Name given unto man under Heaven by which man must be saved [Yahweh];” yet, who but few teach this?

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