Lie #1: ‘If you live a moral life, deny yourself pleasure, follow the prescribed rituals and give us enough money, you’ll have a decent shot at being accepted by God.’

Remember that scene near the end of the Wizard of Oz, when Toto is pulling back the curtain?  The sound system is bellowing, ‘Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.  THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ HAS SPOKEN!’ And There’s a little man behind the controls, talking into a microphone.

Kind of reminds you of certain religious institutions, doesn’t it? Short little insecure men, hiding behind names and titles, sending everyone on Mission Impossible while they themselves indulge in secret sin. The preacher stands in front of thousands and shakes his finger. Nobody else knows that he had a stripper in his hotel room last night. Somebody tells you, ‘Here, follow all these rules and be the best person you possibly can, and you might have a shot at being accepted by God someday.’ Then they string you along and get you under their thumb.

No wonder people are cynical.

Well it’s no accident that Jesus’ own biggest enemies 2000 years ago were precisely those same self-righteous hypocrites. When Jesus showed up, they were terrified of losing their cushy jobs and political clout. Eventually they murdered him for exposing their racket.

True spirituality had been buried in a big pile of bureaucracy, and the religious establishment used it to gain leverage. To have power over people, to get priority seating in expensive restaurants, and to line their pockets with cash.

They had everyone thinking that pleasing God was a never-ending performance marathon.

Well Jesus painted a totally different picture. He told this story:

‘Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a holy man and the other a tax collector.

The holy man stood and prayed, ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this lousy tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.’

But the tax collector, standing far away, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’

Jesus explains: ‘I tell you, this tax collector went home forgiven, rather than the holy man; for every one who praises himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be praised.’

Beware of the proud holy man who hangs a bunch of rules around your neck.

That humble tax collector had it right. He was doing the only thing you and I can do to be accepted by God. He just asked, with humility.

Tomorrow I’m going to attack Lie #2:

‘God is huge and unapproachable, and He wants you to labor, struggle and live in guilt.’

Thanks for reading!

Respectfully Submitted,

Perry Marshall

www.CoffeeHouseTheology.com

www.CosmicFingerprints.com

The whole story about the Tax Collector is in Luke 18:9-14:

Listen to the Live “Uncut” version of 7 Great Lies:

79 Responses to “Lie #1: ‘If you live a moral life, deny yourself pleasure, follow the prescribed rituals and give us enough money, you’ll have a decent shot at being accepted by God.’”

  1. S. Ross says:

    When I was young the term “Army Chaplain” seemed oxymoronic. For how could anyone serve God and country at once? We the people who are the country require that when all other avenues have failed, the wrath of our violence must descend upon our enemies with all the force our atoms and technology can muster. This is necessary to keep our sidewalks safe from bullets and thermonuclear weapons.

    All the while God demands unconditional love.

    Was I the only kid dragged into Sunday services who wasn’t bored enough to be confused?

    So I sat in Catholic church seething with teenage angst. My hormones were in charge of my sex life. I had to fill out a card so the country could snag me out of my school if it needed me to hurl bullets. And here was a priest telling me week after week that the rules he’d said were inviolable because they were the utterances of an omnipotent being were suspended when we got slugged on the playground.

    It wasn’t that I didn’t want us to defend ourselves. As far as I was concerned anyone who would come here to do violence should learn the why we stand behind our YAG lasers when we’re burning holes through brick walls. But I figured religion should be left out of it. To be consistent I thought we should admit war is the devil’s work and some times the goddamned devil’s work needed to be done and the priests should admit it. Turn away. Go home and pray while we hack some enemy flesh to mostly-cooked hamburger.

    But damn. Don’t tell me God wants me to kill people after you spend a couple of years telling me to turn the other cheek and love my neighbor as myself. God had nothing to do with that crap, I thought.

    “They’re jerking us around with circular logic,” I’d say to my father.

    “Just shut the hell up until you know what’s going on,” was my father’s stock answer to teleological questions that have puzzled mankind since Neanderthal wondered if it was okay to eat the children if the mammoths went scarce.

    One Sunday I was dragged off to church and our usual priest, Father Ennui, wasn’t there. Instead there was someone younger. He’d come up from Fort Monmouth to fill in for our apathetic pastor who had been taken away in an ambulance for reasons that concerned no one.

    This priest was an Army Chaplain, and when it came time for the holy-thou-art-amens and we sat down for his sermon, I was ready to hear what one of God’s own riflemen had to say.

    He told this story:

    After he had been redeployed from Vietnam he was attached to a unit doing humanitarian work in Central America. While he was there a hurricane blew through and wrecked a huge portion of Costa Rica. Many homes were destroyed and people killed. He was assigned to a corps of engineers and physicians who assisted in the recovery.

    One day while they were plodding through the heat and humidity, helping to vaccinate children against water borne diseases and clearing destroyed buildings he and his team came across a grisly scene.

    The force of a hurricane’s winds can turn any inanimate object to a missile. Two-by-fours travelling at 300 kilometers per hour can penetrate solid concrete walls.

    In this case a large palm frond had impaled an mother and child to the side of a wooden shed. The 6′ leaf had become a flying blade and had passed through the child and the mother’s chest. The tip had embedded in the wooden shed planks, and it was strong enough to hold them up. So the woman was still standing with her arms wrapped around her baby, her eyes glaring listless at the horizon. Her clothes fell in tatters around her waist and shoulders. Her blood and viscera had mixed with those of her baby and hung like rags among them like weathered cloth.

    It had been several days since the hurricane had ended, and in the blistering heat and tropical bacteria the bodies had already begun to decompose so that the American team could smell the corpses and hear the flies before they saw them.

    Fatigued by the heat and long days, one of the soldiers threw down his shovel and fell sitting to a pile of rubble beside the erect bodies.

    “What kind of sick motherfucker for a God does something like this?” the soldier asked, then wiped the sweat from his forehead. “Goddamned innocent mother and baby.” (explitives, mine, not the priest’s)

    The chaplain stared for a moment. Said a prayer, then got another soldier to help him take the bodies down. They put them in a thick black plastic bag and loaded them onto a truck.

    When it was finished, the soldier who had been sitting stood and confronted the chaplain.

    “You didn’t answer me,” he said, nose to nose with the man of God. “What kind of God does something like that? Where’s your God of mercy, now? Yeah, I’ve lived through people killing each other, but now it’s plain even God doesn’t want us. Why should I believe one goddamned thing you have to say from now on?”

    And the chaplain reached into his sweaty shirt and pulled out a small gold cross that was on a chain around his neck. He asked the soldier if he knew what it was. And even when the soldier answered, the chaplain told him he didn’t have the slightest idea what it was.

    It was an icon of our world. It was a symbol to remind us of a truth so terrible the only salvation could come from the glint of life each of us could muster.

    He told the soldier what it meant, and he told those of us listening in church that day what it meant, and I had never heard more inspired words. Truely this man was a prophet. For only a warrior would have been able to deliver that message. Only someone who had been to the depths of the human soul and emerged alive would have the guts to explain to an audience of middle-class suburbanites the true message God had in store.

    It was elegant in its purity, its finality, its unabashed viciousness.

    And I adored that message the way I adored rock and roll and my girlfriend. It was the only true thing I’d ever heard in the halls of that building they called a church. It was the only thing consistent with the entire body of knowledge the Catholic Schools tried to cram into my head and feed me on Sundays.

    When Mass was over I broke away from my family. The priest was standing next to one of the opened doors, shaking the hands of patrons on their way out. Not many took his hand, not even to be polite.

    But I rushed him. Shook his hand and thanked him. He could never know he’d smoothed out a lifetime of ripples in my mind. It all made perfect sense now. I could be a part of this world because I understood as much of it as it did of me.

    “All we got is each other, right? That was the sermon. That was great,” I said.

    “Yes,” he said, “Just each other.”

    I shall never forget the sadness in that man’s eyes, nor how he smiled when I told him I understood him. It made sense to me.

    But it didn’t make sense to anyone else. Mother complained to my father about the abysmal sermon, and how dare that alien priest bring such base terminology to a decent church.

    My dad asked me what I had said to the priest, and I told him an abridged version, that basically it was the best sermon I’d ever heard by anyone claiming to be part of the Catholic church.

    And my dad, an ex-soldier, agreed with me against my mom’s protestations.

    They got rid of that priest the following week. He was never invited back. The church HQ received so many complaints they were afraid the collection baskets would go empty for weeks.

    Maybe he knew what he had done. Maybe that’s why he looked so sad.

    Or was it the weight of what he alone seemed to understand, what a church load of parishioners eager to get into their cars to speed home would never want to hear? A truth so horrible it tore into everything real.

    It was a truth so wonderful my world came alive that day. I left the church and never went back.

    In my mind’s eye I see the chaplain in his sweaty, sleevless, green cotton shirt. His crucifix chain intertwined with his steel dog tags around his wet skin. He’s holding the cross out toward his comrade in arms.

    He tells him that cross is an icon of this place. It’s an icon of the earth, so that we should never ever forget.

    He says that none of us know what this place is, but it sure as hell isn’t heaven. God himself couldn’t survive here. He was tacked to a tree and suffocated in his own blood. What made any of us think we could possibly be worthy of better treatment?

    And in light of the terrible inevitability of our personal terminus everything was laid bare except our souls and our beating hearts. All of the bills, and the arguments, and the engine trouble, and asshole bosses were meaningless. We live continuously in the midst of the nuclear explosion of our own deaths.

    In that hideous, brilliant light there is only one thing brighter, one thing true.

    Expect no mercy. Love each other. Take care of each other.

    We have been given to each other.

    In this place we are all we have.

    • Steve Schuler says:

      S.Ross,

      I came upon this website in my on-going search for meaning in this life. Your beautifully composed entry has made my visit worthwhile. Perry Marshall’s take on truth leaves me reflecting, as always, on the glaring absence of that allusive and ephemeral characteristic of Christian Faith in my own life. I often think that my own life would be much easier if it could be, somehow, made manifest. Even Mr. Marshall’s extensive effort at apologetics somehow seems cold, sterile, and lifeless today. Somehow unable to touch my bleeding heart…

      But when you say,

      “In that hideous, brilliant light there is only one thing brighter, one thing true.

      Expect no mercy. Love each other. Take care of each other.

      We have been given to each other.

      In this place we are all we have.”

      I find a truth worth holding onto. Thank You.

      Yesterday a former student and friend of mine came to visit me after a period of several years of having not had contact. I was a teacher of his in 1995, the year he graduated from high school in our small rural town in Oklahoma. In addition to attending his graduation from high school I also attended his baptism into the Baptist Church, at his invitation, during the same year. Despite my own lack of faith and religious affiliation I hoped that there might actually be a Holy Spirit that would protect him from harm as he departed the relative security of his childhood and entered into the adult world. Brad is a “special” guy. He has an IQ of about 68 (mentally retarded) and had also been previously diagnosed as “mentally ill”, giving him the dubious distinction of “dually diagnosed” which made him eligible for institutional care at a young age. Brad has not had an easy life. Despite all that he has been forced to endure he is one of the most kind-hearted people that I have ever know, hence, somebody I can fully consider as, and to count as, a true friend.

      “Great to see you Brad!!! Where have you been???”

      And making a longer story shorter, he has been in state prison for the last five years. His crimes? Initially stealing a car, for which he was sentenced to 5 years, followed by a second charge he incurred while still incarcerated (possesion of marijuana) which prolonged an earlier release he would have earned for “good time”. I will not here narrate the many horrible aspects of prison life that Brad recounted to me. Perhaps a couple of examples will suffice to somehow relieve the pressure that is welling inside of me. He had to learn to fight, loosing two of his front teeth during his education. “If you don’t learn to fight you’ll never make it…”, Brad explained to me. But I guess sometimes even the willingness to fight is not sufficient defense to protect someone from the malice present in this world. Brad told me that he had been raped four times during his incarceration, the last rape/beating so brutal that he was taken to a hospital for medical care. This was about a year prior to having been sufficiently punished for his crimes to earn his release from prison.

      Is there a God? A Father, a Son, and a Holy Spirit?

      Of course I can not say with any degree of certainty, but in light of the life that my friend has endured, despite having taken, with all of the sincerity and conviction that he is capable of, Jesus to be his Lord, Master, and Savior, I will say that I remain remakably unconvinced.

      • P. Peter says:

        Hi Steve,

        I am not sure how you handle it but let me ask a question.

        Is God controlling everything?
        Religion says ‘yes’ but bible says ‘no’.

        God is mighty an I know that He is mighty to save. Many many Christians have been brutally beaten to death, even our Lord. Still I know that God is mighty to save. The devil has come to destroy and if he could, he would have destroyed everything.

        I know it because when my enemies came around me I had to flee and remain in hiding, things were so bad that I had to face a lifetime on the bed with a broken back but God Almighty looked at my tears, though I deserved it yet He placed the wrath of mine enemies on His Son and delivered me.

        I know that He is willing to save and mighty to save. He has and He will. Those with me were cut down and had to face terrible consequences and starvation of themselves and their children but my God and my Lord delivered me. I am sure that it was by His Grace. He made many pray for me.

        He loved me and I do not know why, but He does. Just ask Him and I am sure He will tell you why He saves some and does not save others.

        with love
        Peter

        • Andy Charrington says:

          Well as long as you’re alright! What about the innocent starving children god is apparently punishing on your behalf? Why does god prefer you over them? Does not sound like a very convincing god if you ask me.

          • alexk says:

            God is good. He is not punishing starving children on behalf of anybody. There are some details about life which we will never know and why those children are starving is one of them. Jesus did call those who follow him to be “the Body of Christ.” If Christians take that seriously and act like we believe God’s call on our own lives, couldn’t we act as the hands and feet of Christ and not only feed the poor, but invent better methods of farming and ways of governing to eradicate starvation forever. Jeffery Sachs estimates that 1% of the GDP of the worlds developed countries could feed every mouth in the world.

            • Sooshrut Thakur says:

              I don’t think the god exists. He is not punishing the children ……. if he is not what the heck is he doing ? It is an old saying that god helps those who help themselves . Then how do you know he exists or not if his presence can’t be proved ?
              End Note :- unproved philosophy is a sign of human weakness and god is one and the most famous of them

              • Richard Grier says:

                Very intriguing comments on this board. I won’t attempt to creat a brilliant argument but I will say a couple things. First, I think it makes life easier for some of us if we have God to blame – although he doesn’t exist. It gets us off the hook. We can blame him for rape, murder, starvation, disease and every other evil instead of doing something about it. Secondly and finally, I know that God exists, loves me and loves every other person that lives. Love wouldn’t be love if it was forced…it’s our choice to love God. Because many have chosen not to love God but the world instead, there is evil and there is junk that happens. I can’t explain it all but I still believe in and trust God. One day, my faith will be sight.

                • Tobias Lepke says:

                  Good response Richard. It does seem like many people try to associate the cruelty of humanity to God. “If God is good, why does he allow this” is really flawed logic. If God was to stop all evil on the earth then there would be no man left living. Some may say, well why doesn’t He just stop the severe evil? And where should he draw the line?

          • Rob Fiander says:

            I’m always amazed to hear people blame God for such things as children who do not have enough to eat. Why not blame the real culprits? They are, and, over the ages, have always been, the leaders of government and business, in the form of presidents, dictators, kings, queens, and princes, who hoard profits for their own self-aggrandizement at the expense of the average wage-earner, subject, or citizen. If you really want to find an evil-doer to accuse of something, it’s much easier to just look around in your own environment, past or present, instead of pointing a self-righteous finger at heaven.

            • Brian Golz says:

              Although to a lesser extent, anyone who can afford to help those less fortunate but choose not to are at fault.

              • Rob Fiander says:

                Re: Golz comment:
                —-Naturally, Mr. Golz. Too obvious to say, really.
                I should add that I think that real political power, now and throughout history, has been behind the scenes. Political leaders are usually marionettes controlled by money changers and central banks. Hence, the blaming of God for human misery–in yesteryear and in today’s world–is a symptom of the inane self-righteousness of God’s accusers. More importantly, the persistent blaming of God for human misery is a symptom of how the powers that be have turned scrutiny away from themselves and toward the blameless deity.

    • thomas vuono says:

      I was raised Catholic and was educated in Parochial school. I was very devout and the Jesuits would send me to spend my summer’s at seminary up in the Catskill mtn’s of N.Y. It was a beautiful place situated on a mountain overlooking the Hudson River. As a teen I started spending less time with religion and more time with friends. I volunteered for the military at 17. At 18 I did a tour in Vietnam with the Airborne Infantry as a rifleman. I had seen much of humanities cruelty, yet I also seen great acts of sacrifice, which to me were proof of mans redeeming qualities. When I returned to the States, America was in a turmoil . it was as if I returned to a different world. Many people I had gone to school with, now professed to be atheist. As the saying goes, ” when in Rome ” after a while religion wasn’t even a concept for me. After many years spent feeling lost and alone. I tried to get my spiritual gyroscope back on course. I spent many years going up into the mountain country, all across America. I would see things in nature that to me were proof positive of a God. I remember being in Wyoming and watching a herd of Bison graze, and thought to myself man could never come up with something like that. the genius behind it amazed me. Here was a creature that mowed the lawn fueled by the grass it was cutting down. Transforming it to fertilizer and reseeding the area to ensure another season of growth. While supplying sustenance for man. I then remembered a saying told to me by one of the Jesuits that had schooled me. It was from Thomas Aquinas ” Though I search for you every where, You are all around me. After a time I ran into an Evangelist. Who told me That I was worshipping the creation and not the Creator. That this was similar to devil worship. I knew in my heart though this was not the case for like St. Thomas I was just seeing the hand of God in every creation. This evangelist invited me to his church for Bible study, Of which he was the pastor. There was a passage we were discussing. I am not very good at numbering chapter and verse, but it was the passage where Jesus is explaining that ” The only way to the father is thru him, and whomever believes in me will go to the father ” During the discussion the pastor explained this is why evangelism is so important. I had questions. So i asked what if a Buddhist monk had heard the message of Jesus but preferred his own religious beliefs and this man did nothing but good all his life would he go to Heaven or hell? This Pastor without pause or thought. Told me this man was destined to eternity in hell. Earlier that week we had discussed another passage from the Bible. Again I cannot quote chapter and verse but. Jesus makes a statement. ” that the greatest gift a man can give, is to give his life for his fellow man ” So I related an event I had seen during the war.
      There was a medic in our platoon. I only knew him as ” DOC ” he was a big man from Oklahoma withe big hands and fingers the size of sausages. We would constantly tease him. Saying we would rather be tortured by the enemy then have DOC get his fingers on us. He was a good natured man from a simple life and like his father, didn’t profess any religion other then a belief in God.
      We were on patrol one day around a tiny hamlet outside of Bong Son. We were skirting around the perimeter of some rice paddies when we received incoming enemy fire. We returned fire and the enemy began a slow with drawl. we gave chase and was soon in the middle of the village. There is not much I remember about that contact. there was much confusion. Lots of noise I remember hearing much yelling and screaming from both civilians caught up in the melee and from the wounded on both sides. There is one thing that stood out as clear as a bell and even today is like playing a video in my mind.
      My squad leader, my machine gunner and I ( I was asst. mach gunner ) were concealed behind a paddy dike Doc was a few feet away villagers that had got caught up in the fire fight were running every which way trying to get clear. During the confusion a young child, maybe four years old got separated from the parents and was wandering aimlessly about crying. He was headed in a direct path between us and the enemy. Before he could get completely in the middle of this mess Doc jumped up and ran to the child. On the way there he took three hits from an AK-47 square in the chest it staggered him for a second. I waited for him to drop so I could give me gunner the signal to return fire, I was sure he had bought it. He stood there for a second longer and then just shook his shoulders like he was shaking it off, and just dove on top of the child we returned fire but doc took another hit in the back this time he just curled up wrapping himself around that kid and died. after the fire fight when we got to him he didn’t have the usual death grimace on his face. he was smiling. He looked as though he might just be out. I called to him and touched his shoulder. he was gone. when the medevacs arrived they went to put him in a body bag he was practically cut in half.
      I asked this Pastor wether he thought he went to Heaven or Hell again he told me without Jesus that he had gone to hell. What got those of us that knew DOC through the war was, that we knew there was a special place for him in Heaven and if there wee wounded up there DOC was still patching them up and people were still running from him screaming ” don’t touch me with those meat hooks ” For 41 years whenever I thought about him, consolation came not from the silver star he received that day with the oak leaf cluster but from the knowledge in my heart that if there was a God. Doc was sitting there with him exhorting him to remove his sandals so he could check his feet. That Pastor that day took all that away from me. I left that church and Haven’t been back. When I left he told me that without Christ there is no salvation only Hell. My reply as I left was I would rather spend time in hell with my paratrooper buddies then an eternity in Heaven with the likes of him.

      • perrymarshall says:

        What a great story. Thank you.

        You might appreciate this:

        http://www.coffeehousetheology.com/top10/#8

        • Glenda Smith says:

          What a good reply to this man’s dilemma, and not only his, but it has been mine, too.

          I did not know this answer, but I did know this one, “God said, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy…”, therefore, I know God is just, and righteous altogether; He will not judge anyone unjustly; whatever judgement we receive we will deserve, no matter what we have done or not done. Of course, once one hears the Gospel of Jesus Christ and refuses it, that is another question. But…one who does not have this wonderful knowledge…well, I know they are in Good hands…they are in God’s hands, and He is just, and He is merciful. I believe that everyone has an opportunity to say yes to Jesus, that Jesus will come to them and with their last thought they will either accept or reject Him.

          God did say in His Word that some who did not have the law were a law unto themselves; that they would accept or reject that which was evil or wrong based on their own conscience…which of course God gave to all people.

          But, to those who have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is either accept or reject and God will either accept or reject us on that basis.

          The preacher should not have, and cannot, judge whether or not someone will go to hell because man does not know what is in a person’s heart, or how God is dealing with them at any given moment, even in their moment of death. We must , with humility, simply say, God is good and just, He will weigh all things, and He will judge justly; He gives everyone every changce to know Him and His Son, Jesus Christ.

          We must make sure we share Jesus with all we can; even if they do no recieve it at first, God can be working from that point on. If He cannot turn a person’s heart to Himself, certainly you or I cannot.

      • Edward Ackotia says:

        ” I would rather spend time in hell with my paratrooper buddies than an eternity in Heaven with the likes of you”
        Surely you must retract that statement… it is really a dreadful and reprehensible thing to say. Do not wish such a horrible fate upon yourself. If you wish to be agnostic, I cannot object to that but if you wish eternal perdition on yourself bear in mind that hell is a terrible place; a dystopia in fact. for all you know you might not meet your friends there.

    • Living Faith says:

      Why have you bought into these lies? Don’t you know that God loves you and wants you to come to know Him deeply? See the truth and stop peddling lies. You will be safe if you just stop resisting God’s patient love.

  2. Les Miller says:

    Thank you for your research and evaluations thereof. I HAVE found the truth. It is so self-evident that I cannot understand why so many people cannot see it: The concept of virgin birth borders on the ridiculous, and

    the idea that a multi-billion-year-old god (aka Zeus?) visited this planet

    2000 years ago and talked to folks and impregnated a woman is even more-so. It is, therefore, blatantly clear that Jesus was a very intelligent man who believed nearly everything that he said. He was NOT “divine” and was no more the “son of god” than all of the rest of us (if there were a god). Sincerely, Les The Seven Great Lies of Organized Religion

    • perrymarshall says:

      Les,

      I don’t know what your beliefs are… I would only like to point out that *every* single belief system – including Atheism, has its own “Virgin Birth” story, and believes it religiously.

      Here’s what I mean by that: Science can explain how the world operates but it can’t explain how the universe or life on planet earth got here, except through a genuine, bona fide miracle. The Virgin Birth story of Atheism is called “Abiogenisis” – the emergence of life from non- life. A close examination of the literature shows that no scientist has ever produced anything but wild speculation about how this could be possible.

      The Big Bang, of which we have an enormous amount of knowledge now, poses the exact same problem: How did the universe emerge from a single point and explode into an ultra-fine tuned existence 13.8 billion years ago? We certainly know it happened, but cannot possibly explain how it happened based on any rational or scientific postulate.

      So on the basis of this I do not find the Biblical understanding that “in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” nor the fact that He created life, or the fact that He was incarnated as a real man 2000 years ago, hard to believe.

      One is no more unbelievable or unscientific than the other. (Today it is possible to have virgin births. We call it In Vitro Fertilization.) If God can create an amoeba, can he not create a sperm? And is the person who says God created the amoeba any more ridiculous than the person who says the waters of a dead ocean can create an amoeba?

      It is not possible to explain the world without eventually invoking a miracle. Christians have them and atheists have them. Just depends on which ‘miracle’ you’re willing to believe.

      • Martin Lagerwey says:

        Science has found an explanation for origin of species, it is called natural selection. Science has found an explanation for the origin of the universe and that is called the big bang theory. Science follows the principle that natural laws can explain all questions.

        Since bio-genesis is not yet understood (it may well be one day)it is not necessarily a miracle. Science does not “believe’ in miracles as you claim. If, when bio-genesis is understood we suspect it will be by natural causes.

        I agree that no scientist has proven a model of bio-genesis but some possibilities have been suggested and they are speculative, not all “wildly speculative” as you dismissively claim. They are certainly not “virgin birth” stories in the sense that they require miracles as the God hypothesis does. The reason that the Bible is not scientific as you claim it to be is that the Bible relies on miracles and science relies on natural laws.

        • Brian Golz says:

          Regardless of what raw science manages to discover, a few basic obstacles, built by science, render God necessary, thus science does not replace God. Here are two:

          1. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed from one form to another, and on a universal scale, constantly from higher a quality form of energy, such as matter, to a lower quality form of energy, ultimately taking the form of heat. The resulting entropy can not be reversed without degrading energy from elsewhere, resulting in even greater entropy.
          It is commonly theorized that the matter in the universe undergoes periods of expansion and contraction, with collapses and explosions (big bangs) in between. Following atheistic logic, taking into account the conservation of mass, the universe has been going through this cycle for an infinite amount of time, and will continue to do so for an infinite amount of time, as it would never actually have been created in the first place, but was always already there.
          Taking into account the past two points, one should notice a paradox. If the universe has had energy degrade for an infinite amount of time, essentially all of it should be in the form of heat. However, this is obviously not the case. Therefore, the contents of the universe, and likely the universe itself, had to be created at some point, by a being with the ability to go above and beyond the constraints of physics. God is such a being.

          The second set of obstacles is even more significant.

          2. The activity in the universe is driven by the four universal forces: gravity, the weak nuclear force, electromagnetism, and the strong nuclear force.
          At the most basic level, there can be nothing causing these forces, other than that, “They just happen/work.” That is obviously not a sufficient argument.
          String theory has been suggested as the ultimate cause of these. However, string theory is more a hypothesis than an actual theory. It has no real evidence, only that its characteristics make it seem like the idea could be correct. Again, that is obviously an insufficient argument. It is much like the blind faith argument made by Christians on occasion, so to invalidate Christian blind faith but validate string theory would be a double standard.
          Obviously, in order for these forces to exist, there must be an explanation for why they do. That they are caused by God would not necessarily be far-fetched, and, given the prior information, such a cause is necessary.

          Granted, I am not omniscient, so I can not be absolutely, 100% sure of any of this until I die, but up to this point, I can see no way around these points, and any atheist I have confronted with these points has been completely unable to provide a real answer to them. If you can do better, then go right ahead.

          • Sooshrut Thakur says:

            1. Matter is never said to be a form of energy. Matter does not want to change to energy. It wants entropy. Entropy never means heat or energy . It means more disorder . It is true that in this universe disorder can not be decreased without increasing net disorder. But it is also a thing that there is no disorder scale. You don’t put thermometer into things and know disorder is 50 units . It is always relative to the previous state. And a relative unit has no beginning .

            2.The expansion and compression cycle is only a hypothesis. It is not an accepted theory in science.
            3. Science is a book which is still being written. What is written on the last is a matter of curiousness which drives humans in this pursuit nad is unknown till date.

            However science has an edge over other things because it originates from the simplest common sense . And at least Science can explain how the world operates the other part will come some day

            • Brian Golz says:

              1. As far as science has observed, entropy is ultimately heat. While entropy is relative, and may or may not have a beginning, it has an end. If the universe and its contents were not created, then they must have always existed. Thus, by such an origin, humans came into the picture after an infinite amount of time. However, if you allow entropy to take its course at any rate, for an infinite amount of time, then entropy would be complete, resulting in heat death. That is not the situation the universe is currently in.
              2. I feel like I remember something about Stephen Hawking backing this idea. Either way, not critical.
              3. Not sure what to comment on there…

              Science originates from observation, experimentation, and theorization based on logic and reason, which is then tested, and either confirmed or proven false. Interestingly, it also supports Christian ideas.

              Still no answer regarding the universal forces point.

  3. neL... says:

    I believe that… we must give back to GOD so that he will give us to,.. he once sacrifice for us, and its time for us to show we deserve it..

    like a plant need water, in order to grow,..
    man needs food in order to live,..
    like every creature depends on one another,..

    It only shows that we MUST also need to serve GOD in order to have a peaceful and contented life..

    I’m only 18.. and fulfilling my goals in life,
    but, i’m really contented now for what i have,..

    what if GOD create science to argue minds if GOD really exist..

    would you believe it?

    there are circumstances that you might say I’m wrong..

    but, before thinking that… think what if Iám right???

  4. Fajardo Osc says:

    my reply to Lie 1 :
    1. the failure in life of the leaders( priest/pastros) of the church, does not necessarily mean failure of the teaching of the church. there are those who fail ( including the leaders but there are those who succeed in fidelity ( see the lives of the saints. )
    2. if one focuses on denial ( deny pleasures ) you will not be happy in life, instead as Jesus taught: “love others as I have loved you”. focus on love and loving and you will be happy in life.

    • David Angkor says:

      “Love others as I have loved you”? Where are the Christians who practice that? If Jesus appeared on the streets of America now and spoke out against intolerance, the so-called ‘Christians’ of today would string him up all over again.

      • Alexander Pasternak says:

        Wow. You just made me realize how much, many of the modern day Christians, are like the pharisees in the stories of Jesus.

        • Philip Adeoye says:

          Some “Christians” today may act like the Pharisees of times gone by, but being “Christ-like” is the ultimate goal. Remember, Christians are only “saved sinners.”

    • Sooshrut Thakur says:

      The main problem with most not all priests is that they over emphasise on things. Take a small example. I teach to two children that 2+2 is 4 . One children remembers that thing while the other understands it . The result is that the second one will also know what is 2+1 which the first won’t know . The problem with them is that they weigh what the words say not what they mean. However take any book from library and always what the book means is more important than what the words are or with which ink they are written or in which language it is . MEANING COUNTS NOT THE WORDS

  5. Mike Koch says:

    Depending on what you want to believe in, it is the person that make choices on what to belive, or belive in. If I thought a glass of tea was responsible for my happiness, the I would pay homage and worship tea. By just picking something you believe in doesn’t mean it’s for everyone, but it does mean something to that person. With so many religions in the worls, who can say what is right, or what is wrong?

    • C. Jones says:

      To question what is right or what is wrong in the first place is recognition of a higher truth. The question, “Who can say what is right or what is wrong?” is based on a subjective opinion that you think no one has the right to tell another person what he should or should not believe in, because after all, it is really up to the individual person. Thus, the truth, as you have stated it, is one person can’t tell another what to believe in since their opinion does not matter any more than the next person.
      I am not trying to mean but would just like to make the point that absolute truth does exist. Believing in an inaniment object may bring temporal pleasure, but the person has not found a source of happiness. The person has only put his hope in the wrong thing, thus fooling himself into believing what is not true.
      Truth is the property of a proposition that corresponds with the way things are. It is true that we are all capable of believing in diferent things, but just because we believe in it, does not make it true. (i.e., glass of tea) If I were to tell you that water is wet, the fact that I made the statement is not what made water wet. Before I ever made the statement, water was wet. Water has always been wet. To say it negatively, in its liquid state, it can not be dry. The property of my proposition is the subject, water. Wetness is a property of water. Water in liquid form is wet. Thus, reality corresponds with what was said, making what I said a true statement. Therefore, I have spoken the truth.
      I agree that worshipping tea would mean something to the person doing the worshipping, but that does not mean that the tea SHOULD be worshipped in the first place. Only that the person has set aside truth for that which is physically pleasing. I understand that the bigger issue is not tea, but for arguments sake, a glass of tea is not what we are intended to worship. The truth is, God created us to worship Him. He is our source of happiness. He is our joy.
      He is for everyone, but unfortunately, everyone is not for Him. There are some who choose to believe in a glass of tea and worship it because they incapable of having faith in what is unseen. To believe in God who is not seen as opposed to an object that is, is a scary thought. Often too scary a thought for some to overcome.
      I hope you reply Mike, I would like to talk to you more. Until then, take care.

      • Sooshrut Thakur says:

        Sir how do you know that yours is not the wrong belief? You made your god ‘unseen’. So I can not point any proof for his not being the real god. Since there is no reality what ever is said, can never become a true statement.
        Yours maybe a higher truth but how can you say it is the highest truth ?
        Unproved philosophy is a sign of human weakness. So you made your philosophy unquestionable .
        Dear C.Jones there are two types of answers to any question one is to reply it and other to answer it

  6. maged says:

    I do not really know what is the purpose of attacking the bible as if it leads to all the killing, ripping & cant you feel that the type of freedom from religions is leading to more selfishness, can’t you feel the Atheism is only an invitation for the man to be his own god following his thoughts to be greater& have every thing instead of living in peace with others, can’t you feel right now what pornography is leading? can any man or woman be only satisfied by sex … i do not realy know do you really attack Christianity or all other religions, I do believe that morals alone without attaching it to the religion will not stand alone, it will lead to what the western countries already have , the absence of family role, addiction of drugs from all kinds , the addiction of sex with out real satisfaction & the depression that leads to committing suicide.

    here is what you are inviting to.

    prepareing the people to swallow each other,

    we will really deserve it if we accept all this attack against godly life

    • Sooshrut Thakur says:

      I am an Indian the (one in Asia ). It is true that people like being slave to there senses. But it does not mean that if you destroy your organ of sense that you score something.

      The west is more evolved than us in any sense. In “east” you don’t let the children know anything about sex from the scratch and also less freedom is bestowed upon him . If you teach him about sex from start and give him same degree of freedom the condition will be same as west has now . But please remember this not talking about something does not make ti not exist . In eye of god both the kids are same no difference at all because neither of them has chance to choose whether to take birth in east or west.

      The absence of family role, addiction of drugs from all kinds , the addiction of sex are problems truly but they can be reduced by talking not by being shut and deeming something a taboo.

  7. Glenda Smith says:

    The Holy Bible, the Word of God, is the only source for true faith in God because it comes from God.

    Those who cannot or will not read the Bible seeking to hear from God, but rather read it to criticize it with their own fallible understanding will not receive the Word of God through the power of revelation by the Holy Spirit.

    Many people think of the Bible as just another book, but indeed it is the Word of God, and it is powerful, and it gives life to those who read it. Even atheists have been turned to faith in the God of the Holy Bible just by reading it even thought they were trying to disprove it…that shows how powerful the Word of God is.

    As we read the Bible two things are happening: God is searching our hearts and we are either being convicted of our sin and of God’s righteousness, or we begin to rebel against God’s Word, refute it and reject it and thereby come away without knowing God. We go on to creat our own God, in our own image, never knowing the truth, never knowing the living and true God.

    • Mason Cowie says:

      Think about this question Glenda, what if you were born in another country with a different religion, would you said the same thing? What if you have no way of even heard about a bible in your whole life, what would you think of that?

      • werner erasmus says:

        Dear Mason,

        I’ve had to ask myself what the difference is between Christianity and other religions. The more I look, the more I realize how blind and sinfull humans are. The real truth is blatantly clear. Faith and righteousness are gifts from the Father. God is the author of our belief, and earns us (bought us) through Jesus. All other religions (including Arminianism (the popularized branch of Christianity in the current US, that for me denies faith to be a gift) hold man as the author of his own destiny. Before God we really should not even be boasting about our faith.

        Regards,

        Werner

    • Sooshrut Thakur says:

      Dear Glenda
      Suppose a tribe lives on an unknown island till this date and has no TV no Mails and certainly not BIble. According to you they must go to hell but I do not that would be true. It really is not there mistake that they could not read bible . According to your theory it would become the mistake of Christ himself that he didn’t founded christianity at their place at the first time

      • Brian Golz says:

        I seem to recall Jesus saying something about how one who has not been instructed(and/or properly instructed) will be judged softly for what someone who has been fully instructed would be severely punished for. Supplimenting that, God created humans with consciences for some level of basic guidance.

  8. Akhilesh ghadge says:

    what about neotic sciene that suggests that god is within us and being god is being able to affect physical matter by thoughts?

  9. Carly Lewis says:

    YOUR STATEMENT THAT THAT IS WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES IS COMPLETELY FALSE!!!!!!!!

    * Your “LIE #1” is infact a MASSIVE LIE in itself. Let’s be blunt here – the Bible clearly says the penalty for sin is death. ANYONE who has ever sinned is cut off from God permanently. You will never get to God by giving Him some piddly amount of money or trying to be good. The Bible teaches that people in no way can possibly earn their way back to God. But that He loves us so much that he gave up His Son to pay the price so we dont have to. That is the greatest gift ever. He gave up His Son even for the people who despised, killed and mocked Him. He gave up his Son even for you who to this day despise and mock Him. He loves you and always will.

    Other Responses here…
    * The world is in a broken mess because people are separated from God because of sin. It was NOT how God wanted it, He were created people to be in relationship with Him. Our lives are impacted by the choices of those gone before us. Jesus came, lived, performed miracles, loved others and gave His life up – paying the price for our sin!

    * The Bible say “He [God]has placed eternity in our hearts” – every tribe and tongue has some notion of an afterlife. There are plenty of people in other religions who have cried out to God to have Him reveal Himself to them (through dreams, visions, whatever). With or without the Bible – God promises to reveal Himself to anyone who seeks Him with all their heart.

    * A person with an arguement may sound clever but I have the experience of the difference accepting Jesus has made to my life. Not some fluffy surreal experience, but that the promises made in the Bible were proved true!

  10. Jordan Teschke says:

    I’m sorry to say that your fundamental assumptions are incorrect and you’ve created a straw man falasy, in every point I’ve read of yours. Christians couldn’t even take your arguments seriously. There are some real arguments out there, arguments that are well founded and need discussion as I nor anyone has all the answers but your assertions don’t line up with what Christians believe so my question to you is… what is it that had led you to come to these assertions. I agree with your arguments but since there not based in anything real they just argue a myth you’ve made up. Seems like a lot of time waisted to me.

  11. Biniam Asefa says:

    Dear Sir,

    I like your writings and I like to know more about….

    1.How people make Difeerent Miracles by using Jesus name?
    2.What is a holy sprit?
    3.Why people trys confuse us using Biblical words?

    • perrymarshall says:

      Consider what Jesus said in John 14:

      12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

      The Holy Spirit is the presence of God in the world, which helps us understand the words of Christ.

      You should avoid being confused by biblical words. Jesus’ truth is simple, his yoke is easy and his burden is light.

  12. Ged Hall says:

    I have read through your site in some detail. I can find no rational or factual case for the existence of God within its pages. Given your base assumption is therefore unjustified and unproven, all interpretations are therefore logically hearsay, since what god want is irrelevant if god does not exist. I would like to see a coherent and intelligent discussion regarding the basis for your foundation assumption – upon which everything else depends. I see this as the real issue – an inability to justify the existence of god. I look forward to your response.

  13. Timi says:

    The world scientists tell us is billions of years old, using carbon dating and modern tools we can say this is pretty accurate. Dinosuars lived in prehistoric times, and they ruled. Fossil records tell us how, and where they lived and died. The story of creation in the Bible talks about God creating all other animals according to their nature. Man the Bible claims was created in the image and likeness of God, making him special among other creatures. If we juxtapose the story of Adam with the Dinosuars of prehistory, who do u think will be in charge? A 6 ft Adam or T-Rex?
    The whole story about Christianity/Jesus centres around a single question, why we die. The Bible’s answer is sin. Adam and Eve the first sinners, and everyone else after them guilty by association. Jesus is regarded as the redeemer. Is it true therefore that sin preceeded death? That prior to Adam and Eve’s rebellion the world knew nothing of death? Surely this could not be as there must have been abundant evidence of death and dieing even then among other creations of God. So if the Sun and moon could die, if the birds in the fields, the fishes in the seas, could die why not man?
    God being perfect created a perfect universe, day and night, valleys and mountians, hot and cold, big and small. Everything that existed, existed with its oppositte. All animals had their opposittes man included. So, could God have created right without creating the wrong, good without evil. Remember the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? Yes the knowledge of evil in a tree created by God. If God created this, therefore, there must be a purpose this knowledge would serve.
    Let us remind ourselves that when we talk of God we are talking of an all knowing being omniscient, knowing the outcome of a thing even before it occurs. God knew well ahead that Adam was going to eat off that tree of the knowledge of good and evil. this knowledge must have been necessary for Adam to possess otherwise God would not have given him access. If we do not know the good how can we tell what the bad is? Different sides of the same coin. Adam did not fall in the garden of Eden, he was elevated to the ranks of the Gods, ‘behold he has eaten off the fruit and his eyes have become open like us knowing the difference between good and bad” Adam was driven out of the garden not because he sinned but so he would eat of the tree of life and become immortal like the Gods. All of these are accounts taken from Genesis. If there was no death preceeding the action of Adam there will be no need also for the tree of life.

    • Jose Schab says:

      Great entry Timi.
      Notice that it hasn’t been replied by no one. No wonder. There are no real christian answers to these questions because they are as confused as you are. I have asked same arguments with no replies. Why? because the Bible is a man’s writen book for it’s own benefit- or at least for some. Don’t have to read the whole book to get stuck. I say that writing the Bible was unnecessary to learn about the creation therefore the Creator. As same Perry Marshal says; all was required was Man watching with his own eyes up Above-my words

    • Werner Erasmus says:

      [The world scientists tell us is billions of years old, using carbon dating and modern tools we can say this is pretty accurate.]

      Yes, but more so – that the universe is what – almost 15 billion years old. Here using the doppler effect (red-shift) as basis for measurement.

      [Dinosuars lived in prehistoric times, and they ruled.]

      Yes. Pretty obvious from the fossil records.

      [Man the Bible claims was created in the image and likeness of God, making him special among other creatures.]

      [If we juxtapose the story of Adam with the Dinosuars of prehistory, who do u think will be in charge? A 6 ft Adam or T-Rex?]

      Your problem is that you are taking Gen 1,2 literally. How would the God of ages explain creation to children and adults throughout ages alike, without using allegory. The point of Gen 1,2 is “That God created”, and “That man sinned”, not how. If you want to take it literally, you miss the point. Us humans don’t have the mental capacity to understand how as yet – how would we at the time of Genesis being written?

      Obviously humans and T-Rexes lived in different eras. I might refer you to Francis Collins’s book: “The language of God”.

      [Is it true therefore that sin preceeded death? That prior to Adam and Eve’s rebellion the world knew nothing of death?]

      Certainly not – death existed prior to humans sinning. Humans were not the first to sin. But according to Gen humans knew about what death was prior to sinning, otherwise God would not have mentioned this as their penalty, not? Yes, sin by man caused death to man, but sin and death existed prior.

      Regards,

      Werner

      • David Aldred says:

        Certainly death and sin were present before Adam and Eve. How else would Eve have been tempted if there was no tempter or sinner to tempt her? The temptation was a result of an act of Satan and Satan was a sinner from the beginning.God tempts no man with evil. Thanks, Werner, for your brief but accurate statements.

        • Sooshrut Thakur says:

          Then what were the dinosaurs doing before us ? Did they exist only for us to dig up their remains and put them in museums or were they test driving earth to make sure everything is fine when god sends Adam and eve ? Why does not bible say something about it . And what about the fossil proves which show that man progressed slowly from an ape like ancestor to present.
          Well you will say that it was work of satan . For this I borrow a few lines of Jordan Teschke.

          what is it that had led you to come to these assertions. I agree with your arguments but since there not based in anything real they just argue a myth bible made up. Seems like a lot of time waisted to me.

          • Brian Golz says:

            If the entire history of the Earth, or even more so, the universe, were to be recorded in any detail, there would be a fairly absurd amount of space in scripture dedicated to that. Instead, information that actually had(and has) any significant and immediate importance was used.

  14. Spencer Stern says:

    It all comes down to blood. If you think that blood is something G-d wants or requires, then I suppose you will have no difficulty accepting the idea that animal sacrifices were not good enough and that we need the blood of the messiah to be loved. That is certainly not my concept of G-d, but I can fully admit that I may be wrong.

    I, do still, reject the notion that G-d wants blood. I think that we want blood.

    To me the wage of our sin being death is symbolic. It is supposed to symbolize our life in the womb where we did not have free will. The death was the end of the innocence that we had prior to having the choice of knowing right from wrong. Adam and Eve are not kicked out of the garden for eating the fruit. They are kicked out of the garden for not accepting responsibility. When they encounter G-d they each blame each other. Knowledge without responsibility is meaningless.

    I had a very difficult time accepting the notion of G-d, only being able to love us by sending his “son,” to die for us. It also goes against the entire notion of human sacrifice in the Bible (whether willing or not). If other people feel that they can believe this, I have no problem with that, I wish the best for them in that endeavor.

    Also the notion of the Pharisees being hypocrites is a very questionable view, and not even entirely Biblical from the New Testament. If anything, Jesus was the hypocrite as he was unable to practice what he preached. He often said to turn the other cheek, and to love ones enemies but throughout his life he had no issue attacking the Pharisees.

  15. Pedro Mercado says:

    Greetings: may there be powerpoint presentations on this subject and others related to the lies of religion? is so, i would welcome any suggestions and site addresses.
    Thanks in advanced, Att: Pete

  16. Timi Bomodi says:

    FREEDOM OF CHOICE

    If we look at the world today, there seems to be an explosion of religious ideas, some divergent, few converging at certian rest points, and diverging again. There are some who take this to be one of the signs of end times,signs of which there suddenly seems a preponderance of. But should we really be afraid? Every age since the dawn of Christianity has had it’s ‘end time’ signs, people have become compelled more by fear to worship a God whose sword was pronounced more than his love by his messengers.

    Freedom of choice. We all know this as the right of all humans to have views, hold opinions and beliefs, some would even call it a God given right. If a God given right it is, then we must define what this right means.

    The freedom to choose between options. The right to act in our own interest. With this right is attached responsibilty, in other words our rights constrained by our physical, emotional, mental, psychic, and spiritual space. We are laws unto ourselves so long as we agree to be confined to the defining limits of our rights. This also points to another truth that we as units of awareness are allowed a limitless scope to operate within our rights.

    In the Christian Bible there seems to be no evidence of this right given to Adam and Eve. Adam pre ‘sin’ was as innocent as the other animals going by the account of the Bible. The Bible only ascribes intelligence to Adam and Eve, but not wisdom. It would have been impossible to ascribe wisdom to Adam, because he was completely without the tools to equip himself in that light. Adam was given no guidelines beyond the commands, to not eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, be fruitful, and multiply. To obey this command Adam needed wisdom, which he did not possess.

    Eating of the fruit of this forbidden tree became the ritual, that opened the eyes of Adam and Eve, to the world of dual reality, or duality. Wisdom resulted thereoff. If there is no hatred how can we understand love, if there is no sickness how can we understand good health, if there is no war, how can we understand peace, if there was no death or dieing how could you convince people to turn to God?

    Good and evil exists today as it existed long before Adam discovered it, long before Lucifer or Satan discovered it. From the Bible’s account man did not create evil, or the negative powers, man simply discovered it. The Bible clearly states in Genisis and other books of the Bible that God created Evil, or the negative power. God being all intelligent would have had a reason for doing so, and it could’nt have been for it not to be discovered. Indeed if God wanted for man not to discover evil, he would not have informed Adam of its existence, he would also have placed either Adam or the tree in places that could have been physically impossible for both to meet. But meet they did, and the result is in evidence everywhere, by this I mean not evil, but the multiplicity of opinions, about what is, about truth.

    What is truth,is there only one version of truth, if no, how can these be observed, who can tell if the other person knows or has truth? Can truth be known or lived?

    Whatever we accept as truth, is true to us, this is our state of acceptance, this is our God given right of choice. To be sure, this state is not constant over time, indeed it changes, because the more light – wisdom- we allow to guide us the better the picture becomes. We are refined, and directed by our personal experiences, to allow new perspectives into our lives. Our state of awareness is reflected in our experiences and vice versa.

    Organized orthodox religion seeks to shift attention from our personal experiences to our collective experiences, from the deep and personal, to the shallow and pedestrian. So instead of searching for meaning within, we are thaught to seek it in meaningless rituals, symbols and symbolisms that add no value to our spiritual riches.

    Today we are beginning to pull back all the layers of distortions that have hidden truth from most of us. The world is expriencing a spiritual renaisance, and old dogmas, and doctrines will give way to the new. Today we are not afraid to ask questions, and to demand answers, because the threat of heresy that condemned millions to the torture chambers and burning stakes of the condemned, are no longer tenable.

    Christianity alone has hundreds of denominations, which can be interpreted to mean 100s of states of awareness, so do other religions. But as it is usual with orthodox religion each claim exclusivity to truth. This is why we have a superiority complex among certain religionists. Their views on life being better than that of others.

    Everyone is right as to their assumptions/views about God, this is a God given right. You have a God given right to believe in whatever you like, so long as you are ready to take responsibility for them. For each and everyone of us can only accomodate fractions of truth in our consciousness, but to accept what we know by personal experience to be valid and declare invalid the experiences of others, is to deny them the very freedom we cherish for ourselves.

    Remove fear, condemnation, damnation, hell fire, from this equation, and you begin to see this freedom of choice as a testimony to the non-judgemental, and unconditional love of God, for God cannot pronounce freedom, and eternal damnation in the same breath, otherwise it wont be freedom, it will be only its shadow.

  17. Lee Louw says:

    What a lot of tosh!! Goodness, or for want of a better word, my God….who the hell came up with that question?? And if it is deemed to be a relevant question, then I personally think it should be directed at the churches and the pertanent religious leaders of the world. Not the bible!! I would love to have been to some of the parties in those times, or partaken in some of the pleasures of the flesh, eaten some hallucogenic plant and had a spirtual ‘vision’ and indulged in their so called rituals. And nothing has changed much in the economic sense of it all, just more influential people on the flipping gravy train. Our creator did not just slapped our bits together re the torso, arms and legs and left the ‘dark one’ to create the genitals!! We all need morals, all need pleasures (be it of the flesh or otherwise), and if we were not created to ‘sin’ then there would not be something called GRACE.

  18. DeeDee Bindernagel says:

    I agree that that those 7 things are not true but I have attended church all my life(60 years yesterday) and never were any of those things dumped on us. If that is what youall are getting – I am so sorry. Thank God for our little country church.

  19. Tosin Olajobi says:

    The good people are dead. They could’nt survive our company. We are in a bottomless pit, endless war and confusion. To get out of this we’ll need more remorse, devotion, submission, willingness and patience. God has abandoned the world.

  20. Gabriel Junior says:

    “LIE”?! #1…Be honest! If the church is a masquerade(how do you suppose!)so, why the church preach us to: “live a moral life,deny yourself pleasure,follow the prescriebed rituals”…But not to :…”give us enough money”.

    The Church teaches us a superior moral code than the usual Civil ethics…Because,The Bible says:…”There will in no way enter into it anything profane, or one who causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life”(Revelation21:27).And leads us on that ‘Initiatic’ way to God wich does not accept compromise and vanity but spiritual and bodily purity …And : purity ≠ stupidity
    1corinthians6:9-10,…ephesians5:5,…
    Ask yourselves why The Church advocates for keeping moral life even through the media?…
    So,where are the “money”now?!… Well,be honest…Please.
    Tank you

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