Lie #4: ‘Women are spiritually inferior and must bow to the authority of men.’

In the religious bureaucracy of the ancient world, women were basically property. If she burned his toast, he could divorce her and send her away destitute. If she saw a crime in progress and reported it to the police, her testimony in court would be thrown out–simply because she was female. Women weren’t considered smart enough to recount what really happened.

Isn’t that special?

Get this. Jesus gets crucified. His body is taken down and put in a guarded tomb.

Three days later, some of his female friends come to the tomb, the door is wide open, and nobody’s inside. They’re shocked. But they’re even more shocked when Jesus shows up. He talks to them. These women are the first people to see this astonishing event and report it. The men don’t believe it until they see for themselves.

Well here’s the kicker: Had somebody invented this resurrection story out of thin air, they would *never* have said that women found the empty tomb–because women in that culture were considered inferior and unreliable anyway.

So what this demonstrates is:

1) It’s highly unlikely this story is made up, because no person who invents such a hoax would ever put women in this role. The fact that women are the first witnesses to this event strongly suggests that Jesus DID actually rise from the dead. A conclusion that has staggering implications.

2) This also shows that Christianity considers women to be equal to men. Jesus had many women in his inner circle, and there were female leaders and prophetesses in the early church.

When religion runs amok, it’s always in the interest of one of three things:

-Money-
-Sex-
-Power-

Don’t you agree?

And what could be more convenient than for selfish men to shove women around and say it’s the will of God?

You know, the thing about genuine spirituality is that it isn’t used as a weapon to control people. Yes, Jesus gave some pretty stern warnings and he talked about some heavy subjects. But how often do you see him bossing his followers around?

He didn’t do that. Instead, he took off their shoes and washed their dirty feet to show them how they should serve each other. His life and death are the deep irony of God engaged in the humble service of mankind.

Tomorrow I’m going to attack Lie #5. This one may surprise you:

‘There is no single truth. Everyone needs to explore and find a truth that works for them.’

Respectfully Submitted,

Perry Marshall

Listen to the live, un-edited version of 7 Great Lies
(with an extended discussion about human rights, women, slavery and equality:

79 Responses to “Lie #4: ‘Women are spiritually inferior and must bow to the authority of men.’”

  1. Tim P. says:

    How do you justify what Paul said in regard to women; i.e. covering of hair, silence in the church, etc.?

    Best regards,

    Tim P

    • perrymarshall says:

      Tim,

      This is a huge subject, here’s a very brief answer.

      1) Everything Paul says about men and women esp. in marriage has to be understood in the context of men loving their wives as Christ loved the church, and the first chapter of Eph. 5 which says “be subject to one another.” This is the starting point.

      2) If you want an earlier starting point it’s the relationship between adam and eve – eve was not subservient, she was an ally (which is what the hebrew word translated ‘helper’ really means) and in the fall, the ‘he will rule over you’ statement is descriptive, NOT prescriptive.

      3) I interpret the stuff about women being silent in the church as specific to particular situations, not universal – if you look at all the women in Paul’s life, or Timothy’s life, they most certainly were not silent!

      That’s my short answer. Good book on this, Men and Women in the Church: Building Consensus on Christian Leadership by Sarah Sumner. Good reading.

      Best,

      Perry

      • I think i am not only a woman but also a human. So i have same power & intelligence as like a man.God has define same work & same reward for both male & female.

        • Jassi says:

          Female and Male are not equal but they completing each other Like (Yen and Yan) + and – Health and Sickness
          Day and Night, Fire and Water. etc.

          she is your mom and he is your daddy.

    • Jessica de la Cruz says:

      We must understand the context. People take the Bible out of context frequently.

      Paul was speaking to a specific church about the problems with some women speaking out of turn and disrupting the service. He advised them to go home and talk to the husband instead of interrupting (again being the era they lived in that was acceptable to say, that would not happen today)

      About covering their heads; Prostitutes walked the streets with their heads uncovered so do differentiate they were advised to cover their heads

  2. Fajardo Osc says:

    my reply to lie 4:

    Jesus taught and accepted women as equal with men. humanity (male and female comes from God ) equal in dignity ans spirituality. in fact the first apostle of the resurrection was Mary magdalene when Jesus commanded her : ” Go to my brother and TELL THEM…
    but women do not have much prints in the BIble because of the cultural problem of the jews which regards women as inferior. but this is the revolutionary teaching of Jesus that women are equal with men. st. Paul a dedicated Jew grappled on this issue but later on attested that .. neither jew or greek, slaves nor free, woman or man… all all one in Christ. .
    such a great teachings and conversion.

  3. Tosco says:

    “Staggering”, indeed.

  4. Lilly Rabarbara says:

    Hello!

    I was brought up in a strict atheistic conviction (I am from eastern Europe), but now, after few years of practising medicine, I can’t do otherwise than believe in some sort of Higher Power. I like to talk about faith with Christian people, I also like to discuss it with Muslims. But – the fundamental thing that bothers me about any religion is their relation towards women. From what I am told, we hold a slave-like position both in Koran and Old Testament Bible. Why is that so? Why can’t a woman be a pope? Is there a religion that is equally respectful towards both sexes?

    Thank you for your answers in advance

    • perrymarshall says:

      Here’s a good start: see the parts about women and equality and democracy.
      http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/blog/faq/#christian

      I think that to characterize the OT as espousing a slave-like position of women is a drastic oversimplification and in many respects is highly inaccurate. A few thoughts:

      -Eve is the summit of all creation, the crown jewel of all creatures
      -The curse in Genesis 3 describes how things will tend to be (“the man will rule over you), and is implicitly the opposite of what God *wanted* things to be
      -Yes, it is a patriarchal society but in Jesus genealogy four women are mentioned and they’re all “uppity” women
      -Deborah is a judge of Israel in the book of Judges and she is highly esteemed. So is Yael who killed the enemy general, Sisera

      The Catholic church does not permit women to be priests or a pope but many protestant denominations grant women equal leadership status with men. This is a result of Paul saying “In Christ there is neither male nor female, jew nor greek, slave nor free.”

      Perry

      • Lilly Rabarbara says:

        Thank you for your express answer!

        I ordered Sumner’s book (along with 3 others on Christianity and women), thanks for your link!
        I was raised in Communism which is not bad as an idea, but sadly it was brutally abused (like faith is so many times). Now I came to believe in God, because without this it’s impossible to stay sane in front of diseases/problems that torture so many people (and their close ones).
        I have several issues with the Bible, though. It is far more acceptable than Koran but still… If you take 10 random men and give them to read http://bible.cc/genesis/3-16.htm and ask them to explain what they understood – what would they say? It’s clear. I know several gynaecologists!! who claim that suffering during the childbirth is something God commanded (Communist or not, in our country epidural is a rare privilege) and that women should in this way “pay” for Eva’s sin.

        • perrymarshall says:

          Saying women shouldn’t have pain killers in childbirth because of the Curse is no different than saying men shouldn’t use horses or tools in agriculture.

      • Victor M Christianus says:

        “The Catholic church does not permit women to be priests or a pope but many protestant denominations grant women equal leadership status with men.”
        Mr. perry, with all due respect, I think that’s this statement is an oversimplification of Catholicism.
        The Catholic Church does not teach what you’re giving the impression of. We do believe that men can better care for us spiritually and women can care for us naturally. It’s like a boy being bullied is often told by his dad to be a man and the mom lands at the principal’s office.
        Furthermore, the Catholic devotion to Mary and the female Saints should also be considered in contrast to the protestant ‘Mary was just a slavemaid, incubator’ approach some Pastors take.
        In addition to this, in a way, a Priest is actually somewhat less privileged to a nun: a Priest is married to the Church, a nun is directly Jesus Christ’s bride. The relation of course, is not meant literally.
        Lastly, I think the Bible is pretty clear that women aren’t supposed to be priestesses. The reason is not about equality, but it was to differentiate between the pagans who had priestesses at their temples. the Bible forbids us to do things that pagans do.
        There are many reasons other the Catholic Church doesn’t ordain women priests too, but I recommend you to give the CCC a try.
        Taking a teaching out of context and using it as an excuse to encourage another person to despise the entire 2000 year old, 1 Billion plus populated, and worldwide Catholic Church is not an act of Christian Charity.
        In no way do I mean to offend you, frankly, I think you’re one of the greatest minds I’ve seen on the Internet, but I just don’t understand why us Catholics get so ‘side-beaten’ when something else is being discussed. I admit that Jesus doesn’t promise us honours and riches, but I’m certain He didn’t say, ‘All Christians shall especially hate Catholics.’
        Perhaps you didn’t directly mean to condemn the Catholics, but might I politely suggest that either catholic or protestant, aren’t we still the people of one God, who forgives the errors of all?
        Pax Christi

      • Luciano Miceli says:

        1-Jesus appointed only men to be apostles.
        2-Jesus is the Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride; that’s why only men were chosen.
        3-The greater you are, a spiritual principle, the more you should humble your selves. Jesus upon the cross he bore the sins of humanity; He literally took the last seat and that’s why He asks his followers to do the same.
        4-Look at the Holy Family and see how God turns the ways of the worldly upside down: Jesus is subject to Mary and Joseph and Mary is subject to Joseph again showing the principle of spirituality that the greater you are the more you should humble yourself.
        5-God made man from mud but the woman was made from the rib which is close to the heart and that’s why as a rule women are more intuitive and usually more spiritual than men but that does not abolish the principle that the greater you are the more you should humble yourself.
        Thus the fact that only some men are called to the priesthood has nothing to do with the so called charge that women are considered inferior.

    • The Bible is quite blunt on this subject. In Genesis, Adam had command of Eve. This does not mean that the man acts as a bully, and beat her. Not at all, he is to love her. St. Paul says that were there is a conflict it is the man that is the head of the household.

      If a woman (through reincarnation) deserves a promotion in her life, than she is promoted as a man. If you believe in the BIBLE, than please read:

      http://jahtruth.net/men.htm
      http://jahtruth.net/scriptur.htm

      I hope that you like the above reads.

      Under God’s loving hands,

      Christopher Grech

      • perrymarshall says:

        Where does it say Adam had command of eve?

      • Lilly Rabarbara says:

        “This does not mean that the man acts as a bully, and beat her. St. Paul says that were there is a conflict it is the man that is the head of the household.”

        So what advice do you give to women who are beaten by their husbands?

        • perrymarshall says:

          Lilly,

          My advice is for them to leave. Many sects of Christianity understand the New Testament to say that adultery is the ONLY permissible grounds for divorce, but it was always agreed within Jewish law that abandonment, neglect or abuse were also grounds for divorce.

        • Tony Francis says:

          Same advice you would give to men beaten by their wives.

    • balwinder minhas says:

      My Sikh religion accords equal if not higher status to women but acknowleges that actual situation is not right. Male power dominates and clear discrimination exists. But still religion and religious books accord higher status to women.
      unless we give higher value to women’s role in society, women will continue to be undermined. GDP must account for household work and child rearing provided primarily by women. both sexes have their separate roles in society and must be duly recognised.

    • Jamie Bratton says:

      Yes, you will see Christians who tend to relegate us to a secondary citizenship, but you will also see Muslims who hold women as equal to men. On the whole though, Christian nations are much more female friendly than Muslim nations. Then, when you take into account that all the verses that at face value seem to be mysogenistic in the Bible are easily seen to be caring for women in specific situations (upon further study of the language and historical context), and that with further study, the Koranic verses are indeed what they appear to be in our translations…well…there you have it.

    • Leyla binte says:

      To Lilly Rabarbara:

      I will speak from briefly from the Muslim perspective. But before I even start, there are several clarifications to be made about religions and Islam so that you understand what the fuss is all about.

      Quran is the divine book and ,so is the Torah (book of the jews) Zabur and Injeel( the current biblical original text was Injeel)when it was revealed and then its name,texts have been proved to be changed/revised by men,hence we have several editions of it and none can be claimed to be entirely pure as the bishops and pope admit themselves that they can bring changes into their book, however they like it, it just only has to be approved by a council(which is a man based council,hence one cannot be entirely sure of its authenticity now. All this knowledge is given in the Quran and to date it is the only book on earth which is exactly the same to its original first text 1400 yrs ago.

      Its only after reading the Quran and trying to understand its message deeply gives us the insight to the secrets of the world. As its a word of God, it may not be easy to understand it altogether at first, but yet its so powerful in influence that if you attented lectures of scholars of the Quran ,you will always understand it better.

      TO answer your question briefly, What you feel about the role of women in both relgions that you were told about,is totally untrue. The opinions seem to have come from people who obviously lack knowledge and confuse religion with what they see in the world. The truth is that women have so many rights and so much respect in Islam,(and im sure its the same in bible , the uncorrupted version which is nowhere to be found now)That its uncomparable to the status and value given to the women by today’s society which is not much and rather derogatory.

      Women are not treated or referred to as slaves in Islam but its rather princesses and Queens they are supposed to be treated like. The Holy Prophet(peace be upon him) used to stand up to greet his daughter everytime she came to see him, and he used to kiss on her forehead. Infact when you say that women have a low position in relgions, Im reminded of the Quote by the Prohet that’ Heaven lies at the feet of your mother’ .which means that a mother is given such a high status in ISlam that we as children are to serve our mothers four times the service we give to our fathers. What does that make you think?why is a mother, a builiding block of the society given so much respect and status? It is probably because of the pains and sacrifices she goes through to bring the children into this world and then always look to fulfill their needs at all levels.

      And as to your other question, there is no level of position of respect between a man and a woman, and as always, you must know its a sign of respectable societies to show respect towards women and that is what the core of religion is all about. Women study, they become scholars in Islam, and they give sermons and they teach religion and there is no boundary upon women to not be as knowledgeable as men in Islam.

      Perhaps in the current practices of christianity, women are given a lower status then men ,as women cannot become popes in christianity, and neither the pope or the nuns get to marry. Islam has no restrictions on knowledge and the best men and women of the society which are the religiously aware people, all marry and bear children,unlike christianity. If you have any more queries, feel free to contact me at my email. I’ll give you my email whenevr you read this comment.

      • Richard Persaud says:

        “the uncorrupted version which is nowhere to be found now” – If it’s not found anywhere how do you know it even exists?
        The Quran testifies that God protected his revelation and since you agree that the original texts are of god, how on earth did they get corrupted?
        “All this knowledge is given in the Quran and to date it is the only book on earth which is exactly the same to its original first text 1400 yrs ago” FALSE – there are several variant readings of the Quran all of which are DIFFERENT. second, the North African Quran is different in TEXT from the more popular version, which one is the true version?
        Hope to hear from you, Richard

  5. My friend told me this on the man & women struggle:

    Did you know that the Old & New Testaments and the Koran tell the whole world, unequivocally and plainly that MEN ARE THE BOSS OF WOMEN and that, WOMEN ARE TO BE SUBSERVIENT TO MEN? Not out of power madness or old fashioned ideas, but out of pure Divine order.

    Sweetness/love can only come from the strong. Wimp men cannot provide it and look around you and you will only see wimp men and size and physical-strength is not the issue. This is what women expect you to believe, that masculinity is macho, because THAT’S ALL THEY UNDERSTAND and if you don’t have it you had better have PHYSICAL MONEY.

    JUDGES
    14:14 And he said unto them, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. And they could not in three days expound the riddle

    Men have higher status than women, granted by the Supreme Commander/Ruler of the Universe. If you reject this you know very well Who you are rejecting. It’s time to drop any arrogance. Actually there is no way out of this by claiming that it’s not true or out dated. There is only forward and to fight until you win back your position, and don’t con yourself that you have your position. Remember all is (relatively) quiet because you are doing what is tacitly required of you. Selling your soul (you – you are your soul.

    GENESIS
    3:16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be subject] to thy husband, and HE SHALL RULE OVER THEE.
    3:17 And unto Adam He said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I COMMANDED thee, saying, Thou shalt NOT eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life (Eno. 96:12-13);

    LEVITICUS
    27:3 And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of The Sanctuary.
    27:4 And if it [be] a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.
    27:5 And if [it be] from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
    27:6 And if [it be] from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation [shall be] three shekels of silver.
    27:7 And if [it be] from sixty years old and above; if [it be] a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels.

    Ridiculous that they can claim every penny off you (above)!! But you will win if you follow this to the nth degree.

    DEUTERONOMY
    24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give [it] in her hand, and send her out of HIS house.
    24:2 And when she is departed out of HIS house, she may go and be another man’s [wife].
    24:3 And [if] the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth [it] in her hand, and sendeth her out of HIS house; or if the latter husband die, which took her [to be] his wife;

    The OT, NT and Koran are NOT religious books, although man has made many religions out of them. This is one of man’s arrogant ways to do away with God’s word. Read Ezekiel 34, to explain that the Levites were the ONLY appointment priests of God, that were then ABOLISHED, and so therefore His beloved Son (Christ) would come instead of them.

  6. Some more on this subject

    Who is the brave soul amongst us who says that we now have human laws, which supersede God’s Laws (below)? God acts according to His laws, and we can call them THE HIDDEN FORCES. We men are acting in disaccordance between not only ourselves, but in disaccord between Man and God.

    It is NO LIE that woman is inferiour, spiritually speaking, from God’s point of view. If you believe God’s word below, that is a good start. View it NOT as something against women, but to favour the Divine Harmony that God intended between his subjects on earth. This is the reason, why God intended it that way.

    JOB
    2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
    2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

    Hell (earth) hath no fury like a woman scorned (below). Have you had enough of it yet? What have you done lately to put this one to the test?

    ECCLESIASTES
    7:26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart [is] snares and nets, [and] her hands [as] binders: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.
    7:27 Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, [weighing] one thing after another, to find out the reason:
    7:28 Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
    7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many tricks.

    More prophecy for women, on the way (below). It’s not going to be at all pretty. And if you knew and did nothing about it your shame will be equal to theirs. Actually we men have our trouble coming as well, so basically we have to start to dig ourselves out of it. Look carefully who “my people” are; men?

    EZEKIEL
    13:17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
    13:18 And say, Thus saith the Lord “I AM”; Woe to the [women] that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive [that come] unto you?
    13:19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear [your] lies?
    13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord “I AM”; Behold, I [am] against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make [them] fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, [even] the souls that ye hunt to make [them] fly.
    13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I [am] the “I AM”.
    13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
    13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I [am] the “I AM”.

    One of the lost Gospels brought to light (below). Very clear; a woman has to become a man (in her next life) to progress. Remember all the Prophets, Disciples, Apostles and Jesus were men. How much more obvious can it be.

    THOMAS
    16:1 Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go out from among us, because women are not worthy of the Life.
    16:2 Jesus said: See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a Living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Another lost Gospel (below). You may reject it as not Biblical, but notice how profound it is.

    Exerpt from Philip’s Gospel

    When Eve was in Adam there was no death; but when she was separated from him death came into being. If she go in again, and he take her to himself, death will no longer exist. For this reason a man and woman will leave their parents and cleave one (the woman) to the other (the man) becoming one flesh.

    She or he who loves anyone or anything more than me and being part of me (Christ) and allows them, or it, to come in between is unworthy of me and will die.

    If the woman had not separated from the man, and had not gone apart from him to talk to Satan, deciding to believe Satan in preference to God, thereby calling God the liar, she would not die with and have caused the man to die. His separation through worshipping the woman first rather than God became the beginning of death. Because of this Christ came, in order that he might remove the separation which was from the beginning, and again unite the two; and that he might give life to those who died in the separation, and unite them (in serving God). But the woman is united to the man in the “Bridal Chamber”. Only those who have united in “The Bridal Chamber” (of God) will no longer be separated. Because of this Eve separated from Adam, because she was not united to him in the “Bridal Chamber” of God, and went to serve Satan in his world where he comes between man and woman and between both of them and God.

    He whom the woman loves, those whom she will bear are like him: if her husband (or God), they are like her husband (or God); if it is an adulterer (or Satan), they are like the adulterer (or Satan). Often if a woman sleeps with her husband of necessity, but her heart is with the adulterer (or Satan) with whom she is wont to consort (in his world), then what she bears she bears in the likeness of the adulterer (or Satan). But you who are with the Son of God, love not the world but love the Lord, that those you bring forth may not be like unto the world but may be like the Lord.

    Man mixes with man, horse mixes with horse, ass mixes with ass. The kinds mix with those of like kind. So also spirit is wont to mix only with spirit and the Word to consort with the Word and the Light to consort with the Light. If thou become man men will love thee. If thou become spirit the Spirit will be joined to thee. If thou become (and not just speak) the Word, it is the Word which will mix with thee. If thou become Light, it is the Light which will consort with thee. If thou become one of those who belong above, those who belong above will find their rest in thee. If thou become horse or ass or bull or dog or goat or any other animal of those outside and those below (or as in the case of some people all of them), then neither man nor Spirit, nor the Word nor Light, nor those above nor those within will be able to love thee. They will not be able to find rest in or with thee and thou hast no part in them.

    He or she who is a slave against his or her will will be able to become free. He who has become free by the favour of his master and has sold himself again into slavery to his master’s enemy will no longer be able to be free. (Seven devils enter the clean house and he is worse then than he was in his first state).

    It bears repeating (below). The head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man and the head of Christ is God. Let the woman keep silence in the community. Do you think this is out dated and outmoded? Look closely at the ills that women suffer, stress being the biggest, WHICH THEY ARE BLAMING YOU FOR. THEY BROUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES, AND WE HELPED THEM FOR THE SAKE OF (???). I will reveal all later, I promise.

    1 CORINTHIANS
    7:39 The wife is bound by The Law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
    7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.
    11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
    11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.
    11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven [as a sign of her disgrace].
    11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
    11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
    11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
    11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
    11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have a covering on her head, as a sign that she is under the power of her husband because of the angels.
    11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
    11:12 For as the woman [is] of the man, even so [is] the man also by the woman; but all things by God.
    11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
    11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him (if he is not a Nazarite – Numbers 6:2)?
    11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering.
    11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the community of God.
    14:33 For God is NOT [the author] of CONFUSION, but of peace, as in all communities of the holy people.
    14:34 Let your women keep silence in the communities: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith The Law.
    14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a disgrace for women to speak in the community.
    14:36 What? Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?

    ROMANS
    7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know The Law,) how that The Law hath dominion over a man as long as he (the “Self”) liveth?
    7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by The Law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
    7:3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

    EPHESIANS
    5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
    5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
    5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the community: and he is the saviour of the body.
    5:24 Therefore as the community is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
    5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the community, and gave himself for it;
    5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of [Living] water by the Word,
    5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious community, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
    5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
    5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the community:
    5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
    5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
    5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the community.
    5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

    COLOSSIANS
    3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
    3:19 Husbands, love [your] wives, and be not bitter against them.
    3:20 Children, obey [your] parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.
    3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children [to anger], lest they be discouraged.

    • Erin Osgood says:

      Sounds like a bunch of baloney written by men, just like the rest of the bible.

      • Erin, have you even read the Bible? Do yourself a favor and read the 20th Chapter in the gospels according to John. The setting is in a garden, the risen Christ is on his way to the Father in heaven. Mary a women who had seven demons and been set free is searching for her Lord. Her eyes are held(not comprehending Christ’s presence)she asks “where have you taken my Lord?” Jesus says one word pregnant with meaning–“Mary” she then knows He is Jesus…Jesus then tells her “Go and tell my brethren…” point being who was the first evangelist– a women. That should set the precedence for the rest of the story. Sadly enough like most we tend to forget the significance of Jesus’ words.

  7. Prajwal Mohanty says:

    What would have happened if Adam had not eaten the Apple. Would we all have been in Heaven(eden) or would we not have been born.
    If we had been born and some of the future generations had eaten the Apple what would have been their position?

    Diificult to imagine isn’t It. We when born originally are not sinners. We become due to our day to day activities and for the survival of the fittest.

    • Leyla binte says:

      Adam ate the apple on the constant luring of the devil, and later on He regretted. Its in the divine book The Quran that God had originally made MAn for the heavens, but just to make him treasure this gift and acknowledge and deserve it to the level of not taking it for granted, God sent man to earth so that he knew if matters were left to his own intellect, he would create fuss in the world and there would be injustice. And those who would keep themselves straight and obedient in the eyes of God and will not make mischieve in earth, will be those sent to the heaven eventually.

  8. To Prajwal. We are all sinners because in our previous lives we have sided with Satan or being lukewarm with this. God therefore punished us and sent us to earth.

    Read for free the booklet “The Way home or face the fire” to understand everything!

    Therefore we are ALL sinners without fail! Yes we were in heaven before, until we obeyed Satan, the opposser!

  9. To Manny, There were no known female evangelists in the Bible, and pointing out that the first one was a female, does sound that you are placing females above males, when in fact the opposite is the truth. I know that this news hurts female feelings, but the truth must be said.

    • Christopher, I am not placing anybody anywhere. Our Lord Jesus used the setting to show His intent that we are all equal. It is a simple revelation of His heart. It speaks for itself. I am not placing females above men. Stpo and think, in that day and setting were women held in the same esteme as men? In Christ we are all equall.

      • Yes we are all equal in front of God. On earth however in our “life-time” God has chosen which body to use, either a male or a female. It is HIS ruling not ours. The Bible has a strict code of conduct, that places the man at the head of the female.

        The reason is simple, although extremely hard to accept in today’s world. A soul within a female body perhaps needs more “discipline” and hence “needs” to be controlled by a man. Assuming that the man does a good job at it (I cannot assume anything really!) the spirit within the female body will learn more, than if the female were to do as it wants. By being bounded, it learns better. Even men are bounded by the human-body too, and it seems that God has a precise scope for this gender choice. After all, we are all God’s, aren’t we?

        I hope that my explanation helps.

        • perrymarshall says:

          Christopher, I deleted your other post because of its snide tone.

          • I believe all scripture found in both the old and new testaments of the Holy Bible is “God Breathed”, and should be treated as the truth from God. I also believe we struggle when it comes to properly interpreting scripture, especially when we find passages of scripture that “seem” to contradict each other.

            I have often contemplated the meaning of the Bible verses as described in all of the comments above (including Christopher’s verses). It is my desire to conduct myself in the way that Jesus, my Lord and Savior would find pleasing. There is a Bible verse that always seems to apply. Here it is below.

            “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.” Proverbs 3:5-7

            With all I have said and quoted above, this is how I must approach this subject. In John 4, Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20 we are given accounts where women were given the wonderful privilege of taking the good news of the gospel to others. This tells me that we can still do this, without being in danger of grieving the Lord by disobeying or misinterpreting other scriptures that would speak on how a woman should conduct herself.

            • perrymarshall says:

              Joel 2:28 “And afterward,
              I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
              Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
              your old men will dream dreams,
              your young men will see visions.

              It’s kind of hard for daughters to prophesy if they’re not permitted to speak in church. It’s pretty clear to me Paul was not issuing some universal commandment. We certainly don’t see such a command anywhere else.

        • Judith Cortez says:

          Posters like you are the reason a lot of people become atheists.

          Have you actually read your Bible in its historical context instead of taking everything literally?

          Further, women are stressed because we exist in a world governed by your ilk. Who wouldn’t be stressed?

  10. Daniel Calcines says:

    This is one of my Greatest problems with the bible, It when I read it, it’s sexist. Is God okay with this sexism or is the sexism part of what’s wrong with us? Because I cannot stand this level of “men are beter than women.” I really hope god’s not okay with this.

    • Leyla binte says:

      I suggest you read the Quran with authentic translations and explanations and you will find all your answers. In Islam, who ever is good is better than the one who is not, regardless of the sex. MAn was only made different from a women ,and he has more physical strength and nobody can argue with that. But his well being all goes to how he acts, good or bad, he is answerable for the misuse of his strength and power .

  11. Christopher said:The reason is simple, although extremely hard to accept in today’s world. A soul within a female body perhaps needs more “discipline” and hence “needs” to be controlled by a man.
    I think you are off a little here. Men are not to control anybody. That is called witchcraft. The job of discipline belongs to one who gave his all for us. We have the Holy Spirit doing just that in all who will abide in Him.

  12. Eric Notheisen says:

    Concerning Lie number 4: I have recently been doing some historical research. It seems in Roman life at the tme of Paul, a woman was subject to her parent’s authority even after she got married. In some cases a woman could be directed to divorce her husband at the direction of her parents. Livy the wife of Augustas was married to another man before she married Augustas.

    Paul’s admonition for wives to be subject to their husbands may have moe to do with this custom than is perceived by the church at large today. As a side note, wives had much authority in Roman life and were not slaves to their husbands.

  13. Jessica de la Cruz says:

    My comment is in regards to

    Tim P. says:
    September 19, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    How do you justify what Paul said in regard to women; i.e. covering of hair, silence in the church, etc.?

    Best regards,

    Tim P

    We must understand the context. People take the Bible out of context frequently.

    Paul was speaking to a specific church about the problems with some women speaking out of turn and disrupting the service. He advised them to go home and talk to the husband instead of interrupting (again being the era they lived in that was acceptable to say, that would not happen today)

    About covering their heads; Prostitutes walked the streets with their heads uncovered so do differentiate they were advised to cover their heads

  14. God, in his infinite wisdom, when he created the human gave the woman 2 X chromosomes and the man a X and an Y. There will always be 3 Xs to 1 Y. That, I guess, was to keep the ‘prototype’ always available in case that the Y degenerates any further as it has over the last 1,000 or so years.
    Since the man determines the sex of the child and not the woman, the queston is who should ‘set aside’ whom.
    Sincerely, J R Dittbrenner

  15. Victor M Christianus says:

    I see a lot of ‘the bible is sexist/anti-feminist’ tones here. The dude who runs the site is a scholar, but maybe a simple view from a fool like myself can help as well:
    The reason the Bible sometimes appears to be putting men ‘first’ or ‘in charge’ is this:
    God didn’t write the Bible in His study-room, but He inspired normal human beings to write what normal beings understand. now, God is of course able to talk to humans in human’s words, but what comes from humans is actually what we’re more used to, and maybe more receptive to. So God chose to address humankind through human beings. However, God didn’t gunpoint a inspired writers and dictated every word to be written. No, God allowed these inspired folks to write as they would, just that they were granted infallibility during the inspiration. The culture of that time wasn’t what it is today, women really were ‘living tools’ as Aristotle puts it. So, just like we won’t accept an anti-feminist document now, THEY wouldn’t have accepted a pro-women document then.
    The Bible is meant to be a textbook for all times, so We can understand cultures back then, but folks can’t predict the future!
    Another major point is, it’s actually true that in marriage, the Bible does put the man as the head, but this is NOT as in leadership, but since Christian marriage must reflect the Trinity, that’s why my (Catholic) and many other Churches consider marriage a sacrament, because it’s like sharing with God…and sort of an evangelism.
    The Husband is like the first person of the trinity, the Father, and the wife is like Jesus, the Son. Both are indeed different, and the Father comes before the Son, but they are essentially ONE. Same applies for marital union which the Bible terms as becoming ONE.
    One more thing, the Biblical meaning of Authority isn’t honours, power and riches, but rather it ALWAYS means responsibility. So the bible actually grants women rights that weren’t given to them until fairly recently.
    It is also fruitful to understand that the Bible shouldn’t be always be taken literally. Just like Shakespeare doesn’t write ‘the following is in Iambic Pentameter’ in his poetry, the Bible doesn’t either when using metaphor and example to explain something more important. Just as we’ve seen above regarding the relation between marriage and the trinity, for example.
    Lastly, let us always remember that all Christians agree that men and women are equal, and this is derived from the Bible. I know, many folks have problems with the Petrine Epistles regarding the lines that say women are the weaker vessel and that God made man in the image of himself and women in the image of man, etc. St peter is not saying that women are unequal to men, but he’s just using a) cultural language to encourage believer, much like the motto of the State of Maryland (USA) appears to be sexist but it’s actually not and b) he’s simply magnifying the meaning fo what in the Middle Ages was called Chivalry…he’s actually telling men to take better care of women and he’s just using the in-the-image-of language as metaphoric.
    ———————————————————–
    A side note in defence of the Catholic position on women priests: Since the Father and the Son are co-equal and co-eternal, yet they share different roles/natures/functions, in the same way are men and women equal yet certain things only men should do and certain things only women should do. nature testifies to this when a human is born of a woman (in childbirth) and a Christian is born (again) of a man (in baptism). That’s why Catholics don’t ordain women.
    ———————————————————-

    • The Catholic position of the Father and the Son as co-equal is a lie.

      When reading 1 Corinthians the order is simple:
      11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

      Therefore there is the above order, God the Father is the head and of a higher ranking than the Son. The above order is established by God, but the church thinks otherwise and thinks it knows better.

  16. C Pakpahan says:

    In Genesis 2, woman was created out of man’s RIB. The significance of it is so simple. It is to show that a woman is created NOT to trample her husband’s head, and she is NOT created to be trampled by her husband, but as his COMPANION at his SIDE. God could’ve made her out of Adam’s head or backbone but no! He chose to use Adam’s rib.

    • To C Pakpahan,

      Actually he took it from Adam’s side because this was a foreshadowing of Christ.

      When the Roman spear pierced the side of our Saviour on the cross, blood and water flowed down this spear, blood to redeem (purchase) and water to wash clean His Bride, the Church. Our God took this wound in the side, and from this wound came the elements from which His Bride would be formed.

      After His Resurrection Christ still had his wound prints, which also He shall bear in all eternity. When Christ spoke to Adam in the garden, asking why he had hidden himself and Adam speaks of hearing God’s physical footfall (which means of course Jesus Christ, as God has human feet only in the person of Jesus Christ) when those two men, 33 years old each, one the creator of the other, looked at each other, from features they could have been twin brothers and they had the same wound for the same purpose in the same place.

      Hope this helps.

      Viktor Huliganov

  17. Tunde Fajimi says:

    The curse of the Fall of Adam (and Eve) was that the relationship between man and woman, and their joint realationship towards God was skewered towards self-centredness. That means that they would begin to act for their own selfish interests rather than for the interest of the other.

    There is a Divine order to things and God has made the man and the woman to support each other (the woman being a helpmeet or ally). Also, the man was to be the leader (as in have full responsibility) for the wife’s needs and the buck stopped at his table with regards to their joint relationship with God.

    The book of Jeremiah says the heart of man is “desperately wicked”, so men have twisted the Word of God to suit their situations.

    Also, Jesus also said that divorce was allowed by Moses the OT because of the “hardness of their hearts” (unwillingness to submit themselves and be teachable, to receive the highest revelation of God about marriage). I believe the divorce commandments in Deut 24:1-2 were given to preserve order and prevent crisis, because otherwise there would have been family crises – the unraveling of society. The question though is why wasn’t the woman given the right to also “divorce” her husband? Remember the adulterous woman abou to be stoned? Where was her accomplice? (John 8: 1-11).

    Apostle Paul said severally that the man was head in the marriage covenant and that marriage between a man and a woman was like an image of (and a witness to) Christ and His Church, His Bride (Eph ).

    Also, while we can read (in Matt 5: 31-32) that the man can divorce his wife only on the grounds of adultery, the woman isn’t said to have the same privilege (think about it). Doesn’t this consign women to be abused by men? In silence?
    We cannot form an opinion from one verse of Scripture.

    Note in Matt 5: 27-30 (just before the divorce comments above) Jesus talked about adultery and its severity and he said “IF A MAN looks at a woman with lust (not love) in his eyes, he has committed ADULTERY already with her in His heart”. Adultery is defined in context as a man lusting (I don’t it applies to his wife, though a man would ‘love’ not lust after his wife). A very severe warning is given here.

    Personally, I believe that the man was designed by God to be the sower of seeds while the woman was to nurture and multiply whatever he gave to her – it’s a collaboration; an alliance towards “multiplying and replenishing the earth” (Gen 1: 26-28). That’s why nothing can encourage a man more than seeing his wife support him in his work and be his greatest cheerleader. In the absence of that, she poisons his life. We live in a fallen world and so there are many influencers of people’s behaviour including upbringing, past experiences, and the behaviour of other people towards us.

    Whatever a man sows to his wife he reaps from her (because she multiplies his “seed”, literally). This does not mean that the woman can not sow, but just that in the context of the couple’s relationship and responsibility (and accountability) to God there was that order of man and wife, which only God fully understands the implications of breaking.

    As far as I understand, Eve received seed from another (the serpent) which culminated in her eating the forbidden fruit (James 1: 14-15). Because the desire for something (accepting its seed), leads to you thinking about it until you act on it. Eve broke the link between herself and her husband (by going against his practice, and dishonuring God by willingly disobeying Him); Adam also followed her to break the link between himself and God, by following suit. (Epesians 5: 21-24). She brought sin to her husband (but they WERE NOT ASHAMED BY BEING NAKED UNTIL HE ATE IT)!

    He had the final responsibility to protect the link to God and to restore (I believe) the link with her, by remaining under the umbrella of his head, GOD. Sadly, he didn’t.

    Women are to be treated like weaker (or more delicate) vessels by their husbands (1 Peter 3:7). Not “inferior” vessels but “weaker” vessels – more fragile. Weaker because they could easily be deceived (like Eve was); weaker because they multiply whatever they receive (spiritually and naturally) so the man should should only sow the best of seed to his wife (Eph 5:28-29); and weaker because they are more easily and more deeply hurt. So the man should have compassion for his wife, not look down on her difference.

    I believe the covering of the head is more like a recognition – an acknowledgement – of the position and relationship of a woman under the responsibility of her husband before God. It seems to me to be for married women (except for the prophesying and praying which is for all women). Much can be said about this but I believe modern culture cannot be used to put limits on God’s Word.

    Silence could be seen both in the context of the culture of the day and also symbolically as part of the analogy of marriage (as it relates to Jesus and His People).
    First, There were brash women in Corinth who were emboldened to seek men out and have their way with them (sexually and otherwise). It was a cultural thing, and those women did not submit to any man (they could not conceive of the reason for God’s order for man and wife).
    Christian women were not to be like them. They were to be examples to the other women of the sovereignty of God in ordaining marriage, and the loving respect they had for their husbands. Also, they were to honour their husbands by giving them the place of spiritual position seeds and receiving from them (even if God had given them spiritual gifts as well).

    Unfortunately these days, the men are easily distracted by unspiritual things, and women often carry more than their fair share in seeking God and in caring for the family. In many societies, women carry the spiritual burdens and also suffer the unjust and misplaced anger and abuse of their husbands. It’s a lack of understanding. God does not change.

    I am learning that men have a huge responsibility before God to determine the flow of their homes, under God’s direction. Modern society doesn’t understand God’s order (or submit to him) and so create all kinds of reactive ideas for marriage and family – especially fast divorce, and undercutting parental authority. That’s another long story altogether.

    God made man and woman to work together under His guidance to raise children properly and to make the earth work right, according to His will. Men have short-circuited this with their own ideas over the centuries (deliberately and otherwise). The enslavement of women began as a consequence of the Fall and has been made worse over time, but in marriages between a believing man and woman the image of God in His original plan is supposed to be reflected. Sadly, it often isn’t, and Christians ans hence God are resisted.

  18. Dear Tunde Fajimi,

    You got most things right, especially you refer to the Bible, which is the fountain of truth.

    However when you say that Eve has the seed of the serpent, this is not true. Eve was created from Adam’s side, and therefore women are to be at the side of man, as a helper in this life.

    It was the serpent’s (Satan) intervention that sold the lie to Eve. Adam did not question Eve and he fell for it. Time that man should hear what their wives say, but not necessary do what they want/say. They do get many things wrong, especially on spiritual matters, and in spiritual direction. It does not mean that man gets things right, either, if he does not bother seeking the truth, and spiritual attainment.

    • Tunde Fajimi says:

      Hello Christopher,

      This is quite late but I don’t often visit this site 🙂

      When I said ‘seed’ I did not mean that literally. What I meant was that Satan sowed seeds of disobedience to God (and rejecting her husband’s authority, in that context) into her mind and heart when he suggested to her that everything God (and her husband I believe) had said about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil could be challenged…

      Truly there is a hierarchy of authority set up by God Himself. The problem for the men is they rarely submit to God’s commands to them, yet always struggle to make women submit to their own interpretation of a ‘woman’s place’.

      How many of us men (I mean Believers, who have the words of God in the Bible) actually love our wives “like Christ loved the church and gave himself for her”? If we were to do this, truly, it would be an example to the world of Christ’s love for us, and also the Love of the Father, who sent him.

      The Christian marriage is meant to be an ‘evangelism’ opportunity, a display of the will of the Creator and of the unity of Christ with His Church, in the covenant between a man and a woman (Ephesians 5:31). That higher purpose is lost and forgotten in the sensual and procreational focus and perception we have now about marriage.

      Hosea was asked to marry an unfaithful woman to show Israel how God continued to love them in spite of their unfaithfulness. In a much deeper way, when we marry we are taking up the role of proclaiming the love of Christ for mankind by our devotion for each other, thus drawing men to Him.

      Let us never forget this high calling…

      • Thanks Tunde for your post.

        Everything went wrong on earth. The men lost thier way, and hence they do not have in touch what they are supposed to do. Thus communication with God is diminished as well, and thus prone to more collossal errors of judgment.

        There is a difference between what churches tell us, then what the Bible tell us. This is what prompted me to write to all the parishes in my country Malta:

        http://100777.com/spiritual/lettertoparishpriest

  19. Moses's stick says:

    Please, do not care about our belief of God, so we do not care yours.

  20. Unity Explorer says:

    God has a fine and deep sense of humour. The Bible puts mankind’s at test, as well as it does reader’s intelligence. And man(kind) has been failing miserably at both understanding it and at its implementation in organized religions. Eve chose to drink the Kool Aid from the vicious snake — btw who was supposed to keep the critter out of the Garden?
    Adam knew no better than bite the apple too — way of a leader, eh? In fact, always the envious one, he just wanted his “due share”, right? As a consequence God had to warn Eve that by sticking with the loser, she would have to suffer the permanent burden and physical domination of a belly-scratching and belching ruffian who’s delusional enough to think he’s in charge, and who expects to be the spiritually enlightened partner as a God’s compensation for the biological fact that he cannot bear progeny. God is smiling wryly. We will need time, much, much more time before we get ready for a second coming.
    God has a deep sense of humour indeed.

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